Kentucky vs Vandy
 

Hello all,
I decided to finally make an account, but did anyone happen to catch the end of this game. Kentucky player released ball for the shot around a full second after shot clock expired. I believe the ref said to the announcers its not reviewable. Why would that be?

It's built into the rule. You can't go to the monitor to determine whether a shot was released before the shot-clock expired unless there are zeroes on the game clock.

It is not a reviewable situation under the rules, it is that simple. You can review a shot at the end of the half, but not to see if a shot was off before the shot clock expired.

Peace

Anyone else think this is possibly a result of Vandy being different with the location of their shot clocks?

Maybe I did not notice, but where are their shot clocks?

Peace

In the NBA this would be a reviewable play. The would review the shot at the next timeout or period break. And if the last mandatory timeout has been taken, they'll take a look at the first clock stoppage.

UK-Vandy Refs Blow Shot Clock Violation Call, Hand Game To Kentucky, Baffle And Confuse A Senile-Sounding Bob Knight

The benches and coaching boxes are on the end lines, too.

Agree. It's a tough look for the C to view the shooter and shot clock from where it is at. I guess you would go by horn in which case, the play was even closer.

I went to an SEC school for grad school and it baffles me that nobody ever forced Vandy to put things in the proper places.

All officials have and can call a shot clock violation for the record. So this is not just a C call and if anyone hears the shot clock horn they can make this call. I agree the shot clock location does not help if you could get a visual, but we do not make the call based solely on the visual part, but the audio part.

Peace

How loud is the horn at Vandy? Can the officials hear it well with the crowd noise?

I'm not making excuses for them. Quite frankly, it's insane that this isn't reviewable. The tool is there - let them use it.

Red 0 behind the basket. Ball still in hands.

http://i.imgur.com/04A0B.png

I just watched it again. Sounds on the telecast like the horn was after the shot left the hand. Could be the distance the sound had to travel, I guess.

Watch the Deadspin feed. Listen for the horn.

You could make that same case in most situations. I know even in small college gyms those horns are not that loud.

I also have no problem with these being not being reviewable because you could do that every single time up the court. Sometimes we need to just officiate and video is not going to solve everything. I do not even see anything that makes me feel this was a slam dunk either way.

Peace

How often do we have close shot clock violations in a typical college game? I only work a handful of college games a season, but we have one or two, at most. It's not a bad idea to try to review this as the video is available.

If you made the rule changed you would have a request for a review every single possession this was an issue or it was close. Just like you would they go overboard for reviews for elbows now. And all you hear is the media complain about how many times those are reviewed. You really want to add one of the more common situations to be reviewed? Just like there are limits on what is reviewed in football, this is just silly to have reviews for everything like this.

Peace

Even after watching the tape? I'd bet my schedule this is graded an IC. And correctly so.

Under NBA rules, the officials are allowed to review whether or not a shot clock violation has occurred, and this situation doesn't come up too often, so I don't believe it would happen every single time up the court.

They review a lot more in the NCAA level than they do in the NBA as far as I can tell. Every elbow sitaution or flagrant situation they review them. I think all this would happen more with more official and more conference supervisors and different philsophies out there. The NBA staff is very small in comparison so they are on more on one page. And the NBA can control how their games are broadcast on TV where NCAA will have all kinds of standards. We already have the Pac 12 cannot use HD video courtside. I think that is going to be all over the place if you allow that to be reviewed.

Peace

I'd say the NBA has more situations that are reviewable...but some of those are only in effect in the final two minutes of regulation and all of OT (OOB calls, when officials call goaltending, block/charge plays involving the RA, whether or not a ball struck the rim meaning the shot clock should be reset). The biggest difference in NCAA replay rules and NBA replay rules is that the NBA reviews some of its plays during mandatory timeouts while NCAA will stop play instantly and review the play as it's tied to its correctable errors timeframe (and on a side note, the NBA's correctable errors procedure means they have a longer time frame to correct an error). The NBA method lends itself to better to the flow of the game.

I just don't think that this situation comes up often enough to where it's be an issue. 90+ percent of tries come easily before or after the expiration of the shot clock and that 10 percent of the other tries wouldn't be enough, IMO, to where it'd be an issue.

All I am saying is you cannot compare every situation to the NBA. And the NBA does not review the kinds of things that the NCAA does as well. They are too much apples and oranges in many situations and this is one of them.

Peace

Looks like to me the clock showed "0" but the horn goes off a second later, which would mean to me that since the shot clock doesn't show tenths of a second, it's showing zero, but you still have 0.9 0.8 ...blah blah....until you actually get to 0.0 and have the horn. So even though the big red 0 was on the board i don't think you have a violation until you get the horn, which then the ball was out of his hands. Just my thoughts.

So? Just becasue it's wrong doesn't mean it should be reviewable. There a probably a dozen or more "IC"s in a game -- the only difference is that at the end of a game a team doesn't have a chance to "recover" from it. But, they've had plenty of time to make enough plays so it doesn't matter. If they don't do either, that's the breaks.

I'm with Jeff that there are too many reviews.

But, I'd expect there to be more.

One thing is clear
 

Knight is sure in the dark. Wonder if Teddy V has sent him a nice tweet:p

This is not fair to the officials. You have a situation that is not reviewable so the officials have to use their ears to judge. He appears to release the shot just before the horn which is the only way the officials can judge. Then the rest of the world gets to criticize the officials but not taking into account the fact that the horn and the shot clock are not synchronized. In this world of HD/multiple replays ....., give the officials the tools to make the proper decision.

what about the C
 

Hey Guys,

First post, so go easy.

Anybody think the center rotates out of this play? Maybe he thought the lead was going to rotate, but the C goes top side and by the end of the play they've got to T's. Not sure if this contributes to the "no call incorrect", but I don't think it helps. Thoughts?

Agree with this. Got to be hard to see that from floor level with all the traffic down there.

I go back to my earlier statement. This is NOT an incorrect call if you only use the audio.

Oddly enough, I don't speakers atm. So I can't watch the Deadspin account that Rich mentioned earlier.

BUT... if it's true that the SC reads 0 and the horn hasn't gone off, then it's automatically a CC.

Without seeing the play, this is what could have happened. If A1 is called for a kick ball and the shot clock reads 15, what should the officials do?

Not saying it should be reviewable. Saying it's fairly slam-dunkish as a wrong call.

Put the ball in play with a throw-in to B nearest the spot of the violation.:D

Is it?

THE HORN goes off AFTER the shot leaves the hand. It seems pretty clear from the video.

The rule is this:

If the horn hasn't gone off, it's not a violation.

So I guess we now need tenths on the shot clock! :)

I've seen it before, I think.

I know someone who says have the table "reset" the shot clock to 15 and then give the ball to B for a throw-in. This gentleman is from the DC area and knows at least the college and high school rule books scripture, verse and page. He may know the NBA rule book like that too.

If the clock reads 14 in this situation and it is reset, is it the same as if the clock reads 15 and nothing is done? Could those two situations be almost 1 second (.9) difference?

NBA has it this year.

I stand corrected.

If you set it to 15, it's 15.

If it shows 15 is could be anwhere from 14.000000001 to 15.999999999 depending on the clock.

Most game clocks (well, those without tenths) are the latter (so the horn sounds 1 second after it shows 0); most shot clocks are the former (so the horn sounds as soon as it shows 0).

Next time you get a chance, try this. Set both clocks (say, 8:00 and 30). Start and stop almost immediately. Note that one has likley changed and one hasn't.

And it sounds as though Vandy's clock may be the older style where 0 really means 0 to 0.99999999.

I think that is why this gentleman thinks the clock should be "reset" to 15.

The NBA added tenths of a second to the shot clock when under 5 seconds last year....but in the NBA, if the shot clock had 0 on it, it's a violation period...not when the horn sounds.