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-   -   1 Pt. Safety--Anything Similarly Rare in Basketball? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93423-1-pt-safety-anything-similarly-rare-basketball.html)

Freddy Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:53pm

1 Pt. Safety--Anything Similarly Rare in Basketball?
 
Kudos to our football brethren for getting that call (which I, anyway, had never heard of before) correct.
Anything you know of equally as obscure in basketball for which you and I ought be prepared?

Forksref Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:58pm

How bout the coach who says, "Thank you for correctly observing my player fouling our opponent. I appreciate your efforts tonight in making this a safe and fair experience for our players, coaches and fans. Sportsmanship and teaching our players to be good citizens both on and off the court is my number one priority in coaching and I always make sure that I set an example."

rockyroad Sun Jan 06, 2013 01:04pm

I have had one 5 point play in my 20++ years of officiating...made 3 pointer with a 2 hand shove in the chest while shooter was still airborne. Made both free throws for the Int. foul and we had a 5 point play. Not as rare as that Safety, but doesn't happen very often.

Camron Rust Sun Jan 06, 2013 01:29pm

Shooter gets fouled while in the act of shooting, the ball goes in, I waive off the basket, and give the shooter 2 shots. Not very common, but I've had it happen 2-3 times over the years. How? The shooter traveled prior to releasing the shot.

Bad Zebra Sun Jan 06, 2013 01:42pm

I was going to mention a 5 point play I had last season (or maybe two years ago) but rockyroad beat me to it. The other occurence I had was a game where the winning team in a V-boys game I did several years ago did not attempt a single free throw. I didn't realize it until reading about it in the newspaper the next day.

Freddy Sun Jan 06, 2013 01:51pm

Saw a Ditto of This in Person
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 870407)
...did not attempt a single free throw....

I saw that in a large-school state tournament semi-final game last year in our state. I even went over the video of the entire game to see what our officials missed in an attempt to see why no free throws were ever shot, and they didn't miss a call on any drive or attempted shot. This normally hot-shooting outside shooting team never attempted any drives to the hoop, and on a terrifically cold-shooting low-foul count day they lost badly.
Not necessary an "obscure rule" story, but significantly rare, nonetheless.

Mark Padgett Sun Jan 06, 2013 01:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forksref (Post 870390)
How bout the coach who says, "Thank you for correctly observing my player fouling our opponent. I appreciate your efforts tonight in making this a safe and fair experience for our players, coaches and fans. Sportsmanship and teaching our players to be good citizens both on and off the court is my number one priority in coaching and I always make sure that I set an example."

If I ever heard a coach say this, my first thought would be that I forgot to take my meds - for at least a month. :(

BktBallRef Sun Jan 06, 2013 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 870387)
Kudos to our football brethren for getting that call (which I, anyway, had never heard of before) correct.
Anything you know of equally as obscure in basketball for which you and I ought be prepared?

0:00 on the clock but the horn has not sounded.

I've had it once in 24 years.

Bad Zebra Sun Jan 06, 2013 02:08pm

???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 870403)
Shooter gets fouled while in the act of shooting, the ball goes in, I waive off the basket, and give the shooter 2 shots. Not very common, but I've had it happen 2-3 times over the years. How? The shooter traveled prior to releasing the shot.

Wouldn't the ball be dead once the travel is called (or occured)? Thus, no shot attempt if it occured prior to release?

BktBallRef Sun Jan 06, 2013 02:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 870403)
Shooter gets fouled while in the act of shooting, the ball goes in, I waive off the basket, and give the shooter 2 shots. Not very common, but I've had it happen 2-3 times over the years. How? The shooter traveled prior to releasing the shot.

If the traveling occurred before the foul and the shot, then the ball is dead. No FTs.

Unless you assess a intentional technical foul and if so, why does the "shooter" get the FTs??

Camron Rust Sun Jan 06, 2013 02:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 870415)
If the traveling occurred before the foul and the shot, then the ball is dead. No FTs.

Unless you assess a intentional technical foul and if so, why does the "shooter" get the FTs??

Foul occurred while in the act of shooting, then the travel (probably caused by the foul), then the release.

Picture a layup where the shooter has gathered the ball and is moving to shoot it but is bumped. In response to the bump, they're a bit off balance and take and extra step or two before releasing the ball.

BktBallRef Sun Jan 06, 2013 02:22pm

Okay, that makes better sense.

TimTaylor Sun Jan 06, 2013 02:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 870391)
I have had one 5 point play in my 20++ years of officiating...made 3 pointer with a 2 hand shove in the chest while shooter was still airborne. Made both free throws for the Int. foul and we had a 5 point play. Not as rare as that Safety, but doesn't happen very often.

Have had this a couple times when airborne shooter (3 point attempt) got hit hard enough to level them, resulting in an intentional foul. In one instance the shooter was injured and the replacement made both FT's.

BillyMac Sun Jan 06, 2013 03:09pm

As Time Goes By ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 870413)
0:00 on the clock but the horn has not sounded. I've had it once in 24 years.

Three, or four, times in thirty-two years, with those old fashioned mechanical scoreboards. In all cases I had to ask the timekeeper if the "automatic horn" was on, or off. In same cases it would be off, he would turn it on, the horn would sound, and the period would be over. In other cases, where the "automatic horn" would be off, he would turn it on, and the horn wouldn't sound, leaving us to play a little bit more to end the period.

Can this happen with the new fangled digital scoreboards?

JugglingReferee Sun Jan 06, 2013 03:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 870413)
0:00 on the clock but the horn has not sounded.

I've had it once in 24 years.

Me too. Once, almost 10 years ago now. I can tell you the school I was at, and it was 3 in the afternoon. lol

JugglingReferee Sun Jan 06, 2013 03:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 870403)
Shooter gets fouled while in the act of shooting, the ball goes in, I waive off the basket, and give the shooter 2 shots. Not very common, but I've had it happen 2-3 times over the years. How? The shooter traveled prior to releasing the shot.

I get this about once every other season.

26 Year Gap Sun Jan 06, 2013 04:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 870407)
I was going to mention a 5 point play I had last season (or maybe two years ago) but rockyroad beat me to it. The other occurence I had was a game where the winning team in a V-boys game I did several years ago did not attempt a single free throw. I didn't realize it until reading about it in the newspaper the next day.

I guess it didn't matter that you didn't call it both ways.;)

maven Sun Jan 06, 2013 04:48pm

Multiple foul.

BktBallRef Sun Jan 06, 2013 04:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by maven (Post 870458)
Multiple foul.

Actually, I think that happens in almost every every game, we just don't call it.

BillyMac Sun Jan 06, 2013 05:09pm

Multiple Foul ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 870459)
Actually, I think that happens in almost every every game, we just don't call it.

Then actually calling a multiple foul would be the one point safety.

Bad Zebra Sun Jan 06, 2013 05:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 870451)
I guess it didn't matter that you didn't call it both ways.;)

You'd think...the real odd part was that neither coach ever mentioned the foul count or complained. That's probably why we never realized it until the next day.

Camron Rust Sun Jan 06, 2013 05:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 870466)
Then actually calling a multiple foul would be the one point safety.

There is a difference between something unusually that almost never happens and something that could be called relative often but we choose not to call it.

Mark Padgett Sun Jan 06, 2013 06:10pm

Had this happen a few years ago in a 6th grade boys rec game. A1 shoots a 3 and he is pushed hard in the back by B1 on the shot. The shot goes in. My partner calls an intentional on B1. Coach B yells at B1 for what he did and throws his clipboard onto the court. WHACK! I call it. A1, who is not hurt, makes his two for the intentional, then makes the two for the technical. Coach B requests and is granted a TO and during it, his AC says something to my partner and WHACK! again on the AC this time. We come out of the TO and A1 shoots the FTs for the T on the AC and makes both.

The kid scored nine points in about 2 seconds going off the clock (during his initial shot). Not only that, when team A inbounded the ball after the T he took a 3 right off the inbound pass and it just rolled out. That would have given him 12 points in about 5 seconds. And no - he didn't get fouled on the shot - that really would have been something.

BillyMac Sun Jan 06, 2013 06:31pm

Surprise Party ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 870481)
There is a difference between something unusually that almost never happens and something that could be called relative often but we choose not to call it.

Difference? Yes. But one thing that I know for sure is that if I decide to charge a multiple foul in one of my games that it would certainly surprise the heck out of my partner, the entire table crew, all the players on both teams, all the coaches on both teams, all of the fans from both teams, the policeman in the corner, the concession stand workers, and as soon as my partner got to his smartphone, it would surprise the heck out of the 325 officials on my local board.

McMac Sun Jan 06, 2013 06:32pm

I had a 6 point play. I was T, A1 shot a 3 and made the shot. While the shot was still in the air, B1 fouled A2 (not in the bonus), called by the L. Our crew got together to confirm the details, but the score counted and A in-bounded the ball on the endline and immediately put up another 3 in which they made.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sun Jan 06, 2013 08:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 870413)
0:00 on the clock but the horn has not sounded.

I've had it once in 24 years.


Tony:

I have had it several times, but of course you are just a "youngin', :D" when it comes to the number of years that we have been in this racket.

MTD, Sr.

Rich Sun Jan 06, 2013 08:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 870531)
Tony:

I have had it several times, but of course you are just a "youngin', :D" when it comes to the number of years that we have been in this racket.

MTD, Sr.

I used to be amazed at those who have been doing this for 40 or so years. But now that I'm in my 26th year...I'm amazed that I'm still going at it. Actually, I can see myself doing this for another 10-15 years, at least.

I have 11 varsity HS or juco dates in the next 13 days. And looking forward to it. We'll see how I feel in mid-February. :D

26 Year Gap Sun Jan 06, 2013 09:36pm

2 consecutive FTs coming to rest on the flange.

chapmaja Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by McMac (Post 870491)
I had a 6 point play. I was T, A1 shot a 3 and made the shot. While the shot was still in the air, B1 fouled A2 (not in the bonus), called by the L. Our crew got together to confirm the details, but the score counted and A in-bounded the ball on the endline and immediately put up another 3 in which they made.

I have that beat. Similar situation. We had a team attempt a 3, and while the ball was in flight, the defensive team pushed the opponent out of the way fighting for a rebound. I was the lead and called the foul on the defense. On the inbound play the team throws to a 3 point shooter who gets pushed after he releases the shot, but before he lands. The shot goes in. He then makes the free throw, making this essentially a 7 point play. About 5 seconds later they got two more free throws because the captain of the defensive team could not understand that the opponents would get the ball on the first situation and starting swearing at me. That really made it 9 points in a matter of three or 4 seconds coming off the clock. They also attempted to protest a mis-application of the rules, but we shot down on that.

SAJ Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:11am

Goaltending on a free throw

maven Mon Jan 07, 2013 07:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAJ (Post 870591)
Goaltending on a free throw

Winner.

BillyMac Mon Jan 07, 2013 07:52am

Did This Really Happen ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 870565)
2 consecutive FTs coming to rest on the flange.

Winner.

Welpe Mon Jan 07, 2013 09:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 870466)
Then actually calling a multiple foul would be the one point safety.

Calling a multiple foul would be more akin to calling a foul for aiding the runner in a football game (think the Bush Push).

maven Mon Jan 07, 2013 09:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 870615)
Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
2 consecutive FTs coming to rest on the flange.

Winner.

Disagree: Gap's entry is a statistically rare event that deploys a perfectly ordinary rule provision (AP arrow).

The 1-point safety is a statistically rare event that deploys a rarely used rule provision. GT on a FT is more analogous.

dumbasabrick Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:44am

Jump ball between non-designated jumpers on a held ball before AP is set.

Jesse James Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:49am

Wedging/sticking a free throw between the glass and rim. Saw it three years ago in a HS game, and doubt I'll ever see it again.

JugglingReferee Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse James (Post 870647)
Wedging/sticking a free throw between the glass and rim. Saw it three years ago in a HS game, and doubt I'll ever see it again.

I see this one every 2-3 years. Odd, eh?

Jesse James Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 870660)
I see this one every 2-3 years. Odd, eh?

Wow--I'd seen a free-throw rest on the flange a few times, but I thought one wedged between glass and rim was a unicorn.

Wonder how often it happens in Northeastern Illinois?

BillyMac Mon Jan 07, 2013 01:25pm

Or A Geomagnetic Anomaly ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse James (Post 870667)
Wonder how often it happens in Northeastern Illinois?

Gravitational anomaly? Do these happen on these equinoxes?

jeremy341a Mon Jan 07, 2013 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumbasabrick (Post 870646)
Jump ball between non-designated jumpers on a held ball before AP is set.

Happened to me in my 2nd game ever.

JRutledge Mon Jan 07, 2013 02:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAJ (Post 870591)
Goaltending on a free throw

There is video tape too. Never seen it since and never saw it before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 870459)
Actually, I think that happens in almost every every game, we just don't call it.

I cannot think of a situation where I was even close to calling it. Usually someone did something first and the other player did something clearly second. Then again I am not calling a multiple foul either, so I guess that is irrelevant. ;)

Peace


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