time keeeping

[Camron Rust]

#1...goal counts. The officials can use any on-court counts they may have to adjust the time...no guessing. If an official got to 7 in the backcourt and got to 4 on a 5 second count in the frontcourt and had some other amount of undetermined time, 11 seconds can be taken off the clock.

#2...if the official knew the clock started early and counted in their head, they could count the basket if it was released before they got to 0:00. That said, when they see it start early, they should kill it right then and fix it (presumably, it is during a throwin so play would typically resume from that same throwin).

#3...same as #2, the official can, with any information they have, make adjustments to the clock. That horn was effectively an inadvertent horn.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

#1...goal counts. The officials can use any on-court counts they may have to adjust the time...no guessing. If an official got to 7 in the backcourt and got to 4 on a 5 second count in the frontcourt and had some other amount of undetermined time, 11 seconds can be taken off the clock.

#2...if the official knew the clock started early and counted in their head, they could count the basket if it was released before they got to 0:00. That said, when they see it start early, they should kill it right then and fix it (presumably, it is during a throwin so play would typically resume from that same throwin).

#3...same as #2, the official can, with any information they have, make adjustments to the clock. That horn was effectively an inadvertent horn.

A little nit-picky by me, but those phrases don't mesh. The official shouldn't try to go with a non-visible count or use "any" info, but do as you wrote in #1 and use only definite knowledge.

Now I'm also going to disagree with your conclusions for #2 and #3. This is the period-ending horn which will cause the players to stop and make the ball dead unless released on a try for goal prior to it sounding. This is not the same as the timer hitting the horn for subs or to get the officials attention. Therefore, the goal cannot count. The timing mistake may be corrected and the game continued from the POI. For #3 the foul would be ignored unless intentional or flagrant and play would again revert to the POI following the timing correction.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The official shouldn't try to go with a non-visible count.

Disagree. If an official has definite knowledge, even if it involves a nonvisible count, like for a possible three second violation, then the official should be allowed to use it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Disagree. If an official has definite knowledge, even if it involves a nonvisible count, like for a possible three second violation, then the official should be allowed to use it.

I agree, but if I'm killing the play with time on the clock, I'm going to have a visible count.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Disagree. If an official has definite knowledge, even if it involves a nonvisible count, like for a possible three second violation, then the official should be allowed to use it.

Don't end up in hot water. Do something which shows up on video.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Don't end up in hot water. Do something which shows up on video.

I disagree. If we only made decisions because video would back us up, we'd avoid making a lot of decisions. Sometimes, you just have to make a tough decision.

If you have a count, visible or not, and you don't use it, you're not following the rules. It doesn't say definite visible knowledge, just definite knowledge.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by camron rust

i disagree. If we only made decisions because video would back us up, we'd avoid making a lot of decisions. Sometimes, you just have to make a tough decision.

If you have a count, visible or not, and you don't use it, you're not following the rules. It doesn't say definite visible knowledge, just definite knowledge.

+1

[grunewar]

ESPN HS game last night - Calif vs Texas teams. Anyone see it?

End of game and black down by three. They have the ball under their basket with 2.17 secs left.

A1 makes a long baseball pass down court which is tipped out by B1 about the top of key at the other end of the court. Clock still reads 2.17.

Refs got together and changed the clock to 1.86 secs.

A lot of BIG TIME coaches at those HS ESPN games last night! Yikes.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Disagree. If an official has definite knowledge, even if it involves a nonvisible count, like for a possible three second violation, then the official should be allowed to use it.

Also, I don't believe that this is what 5-10-2 is referring to with the words official's count. If you look at 2-7-9 you won't find the 3-second count listed.