Approval of Final Score

OKREF

Welpe wrote
So what should our take away be from this thread? Go over at the end of a close game and visually verify the score in the book and that the books are the same?

Yes. Usually there is a time out or 2 at the end of a close game. During on of these timeouts my partner and I both go to the table and verify that the scoreboard reflects what is in the home book. If there is a discrepency between the home and visitor book, we try to get it straight, but ultimately the home book is what is official. When we know that the home book and scoreboard are correct we take a quick glance at the table and make sure they have no problems, then get off the court.

Welpe

I'm not asking about close to the end of the game, I'm asking about after the game is actually over.

OKREF

OKREF wrote
Yes. Usually there is a time out or 2 at the end of a close game. During on of these timeouts my partner and I both go to the table and verify that the scoreboard reflects what is in the home book. If there is a discrepency between the home and visitor book, we try to get it straight, but ultimately the home book is what is official. When we know that the home book and scoreboard are correct we take a quick glance at the table and make sure they have no problems, then get off the court.[/QUOTE]

Welpe wrote
I'm not asking about close to the end of the game, I'm asking about after the game is actually over.

It was right here.

Camron Rust

MD Longhorn wrote
When you "approve the score", you approve that the BOOK has the correct score (and, I guess, for the OP ... that the game is actually over!). If the game is over since the officials have left the gym, then the team with more points in the BOOK (and not the pretty lights or what happens to be in the officials' heads) is what matters. The book, by definition, cannot "show something different" than the score approved because it IS the score that was (or should have been) approved.

Nodding at the scorekeeper or making eye contact is NOT approving the score.

When you check with the scorer as you leave the floor with the board showing 54-55, you're asking them if they have the same....when they indicate they don't have anything different, that is what you've approved.

Welpe

OKREF wrote
It was right here.

Read my post again.

Adam

Welpe wrote
Read my post again.

No is the answer. Check right before the end, look at the running score and verify everyone matches. Tell them that they need to let you know if there's an issue.

rockyroad

Camron Rust wrote
When you check with the scorer as you leave the floor with the board showing 54-55, you're asking them if they have the same....when they indicate they don't have anything different, that is what you've approved.

Wrong again...

The score board has nothing to do with the official score and you know it.

Welpe

Adam wrote
No is the answer. Check right before the end, look at the running score and verify everyone matches. Tell them that they need to let you know if there's an issue.

The reason I ask is that it seems this procedure failed this time but maybe a contingency to handle two inept score keepers is not really feasible.

Adam

Welpe wrote
The reason I ask is that it seems this procedure failed this time but maybe a contingency to handle two inept score keepers is not really feasible.

The OP admitted they didn't actually look, they just asked everyone if they matched. My take away is to actually look with my own eyes.

Welpe

Works for me. Good thread overall, thanks.

MD Longhorn

Camron Rust wrote
When you check with the scorer as you leave the floor with the board showing 54-55, you're asking them if they have the same....when they indicate they don't have anything different, that is what you've approved.

You keep going back to the pretty lights.

JRutledge

Adam wrote
The OP admitted they didn't actually look, they just asked everyone if they matched. My take away is to actually look with my own eyes.

That is too much work. If their is a problem the teams need to monitor this themselves and if there is an issue make it clear to the officials to find the mistake. Otherwise double checking everything is silly to me. I have had coaches go crazy when they feel a point was not awarded in the middle of the game so if they allow that to take place with the final score, same on them. Because even if you look you do not know there was a mistake made or someone was not deliberately making a mistake. I know of almost no officials that I have worked with that do this or suggest to do this.

Peace

MD Longhorn

Adam wrote
The OP admitted they didn't actually look, they just asked everyone if they matched. My take away is to actually look with my own eyes.

R: OK, you guys match?
VSC: Yes.
HSC: Yes sir. We've both got...
R: OK, see ya next time. Thanks guys. <trots off>
HSC: 59-59, wait, where's he going?
VSC: I don't know. Should we stop him?
HSC: I don't know, maybe he's got to get something before overtime...
VSC: Weird. Hey, where'd you go to get your shirt?

Adam

JRutledge wrote
That is too much work. If their is a problem the teams need to monitor this themselves and if there is an issue make it clear to the officials to find the mistake. Otherwise double checking everything is silly to me. I have had coaches go crazy when they feel a point was not awarded in the middle of the game so if they allow that to take place with the final score, same on them. Because even if you look you do not know there was a mistake made or someone was not deliberately making a mistake. I know of almost no officials that I have worked with that do this or suggest to do this.

Peace

A quick glance at the running score isn't that much work.

Nevadaref

Adam wrote
The OP admitted they didn't actually look, they just asked everyone if they matched. My take away is to actually look with my own eyes.

Not necessary, nor your job per the rules book.

The scorer and timer need to be trusted to do their duties. If they don't, then the school administration and the state office will sort it out.

I'm not going over and looking at the book before leaving.

Edit: Allow me to be clear--the referee does have a duty to "check and approve" the score at the end of each half. What constitutes this is not clearly defined (perhaps one could contend that leaving the visual confines amounts to this, but that is doubtful even with that text), but I've never heard anyone state that it means physically looking at the book oneself. The NCAA has a protocol which merely involves making eye contact with the scorer and then moving off the court unless the scorer alerts the R to a problem.

just another ref

nevadaref wrote
not necessary, nor your job per the rules book.

The scorer and timer need to be trusted to do their duties. If they don't, then the school administration and the state office will sort it out.

I'm not going over and looking at the book before leaving.

Smitty

Nevadaref wrote
I'm not going over and looking at the book before leaving.

Me either. How many people ever actually do this?

Camron Rust

MD Longhorn wrote
You keep going back to the pretty lights.

No. I'm going by the fact that the scorer has indicated that they have the same thing as the pretty lights. If they later, after the officials leave the floor, determine that they made a mistake, it can't be corrected.

Nevadaref

Camron Rust wrote
No. I'm going by the fact that the scorer has indicated that they have the same thing as the pretty lights. If they later, after the officials leave the floor, determine that they made a mistake, it can't be corrected.

So since "it can't be corrected," what do you wish to now let stand--what the scorer told/indicated to the officials or what was actually written down in the official book by the scorer?

Nevadaref

Let me ask this:
At the expiration of time in the 4th quarter the scoreboard shows 59-59.
Prior to the jump ball to begin the extra period, the scorer counts up the points recorded for the 4th quarter in his book. He finds that Team A only has 58 points and that the scoreboard operator must have mistakenly posted an extra point sometime during the final quarter, and alerts the referee.

Team A had possession for the last 38 seconds of the 4th quarter and missed a try for goal at the horn.

Team A coach states that he would not have held the ball for the final 38 seconds of the quarter if he had known that his team was behind by one.

Make your ruling as the R.

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