Well, this was a first...
 

Hi all...

Boys 7th grade the other night. A1 was bring the ball down, and attempts a pass to the wing. B1 goes for the steal, and comes close, but the ball goes out of bound when he touches it and cannot control it. Small gym- B1 catches the ball off the wall, and, mad at himself for not getting the steal and breakaway bounces the ball. Not bad, it went maybe 7 feet in the air. He catches it and tosses it back to me. During the next time out, B1's coach calls me over and, heatedly tells me that I should have given his player a T. I say coach, it didn't warrant a T.

I'm a 5th year guy, so, I'm pretty confident in what I think is a T, but was just wondering what you all think. I asked my partner at halftime, and he said that he wouldn't have T'd him either.

By your description I don't see this being a 'T'.

Coach could always feel free to bench the kid if he felt punishment was warranted. (only after some free throws though :D)

Maybe HTBT, but this doesn't sound that bad.

Not a T....not even close.

The slamming of a ball itself is not what the T is for....it is merely the expression of emotion. Sometimes, however, that emotion is illegal, sometimes it is not. If it is to express displeasure with a call/no-call, the slamming of the ball is the display of emotion and disagreement that should be a T. If it is to express disappointment in response to failing to make the desired play, no T (assuming the ball wasn't made unavailable by the action, which is a different issue). The slamming of the ball itself should be judged on what is behind the action.

No T in my opinion. That's tame and is just a bounce, and not a slam.

Print this post and hand to those players, coaches, parents, fans, & partners when a kid slams the ball down in reaction to a play....

Well said!

May Your Only Son Become The Goalie On A Nude Hockey Team ...
 

I agree that it's well said, however, I always hate to be put in a situation where I am forced to "read the mind" of a player.

I'll say that sometimes the ball bounces so high or far that player motive doesn't matter.

That's not that hard, but try to read the "mind" of a coach. I don't think you can "read" a vacuum. :o

Nice to see you back......
 

I see Mark:

a) is feeling better,

b) has access to a computer again,

c) is in the holiday spirit,

d) all of the above.

Maybe A Long Lost Brother ...
 

e) can no longer toss around the "pigskin" with the family after Thanksgiving dinner without dealing with some deep, philosophical, moral, questions.

You don't need to read the mind of the player. You need to know the situation and observe the reaction. It is usually pretty obvious why they do things.

Agree...and since you brought that point up...I don't like it when players are frustrated (even just with themselves) and slam the ball or even place the ball on the floor and expect us to go get it.

Some here may think that is being lazy or arrogant of an official with that attitude...but, there is rule backing if you think you need it...

10-3-5b

..."failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle blows."

A player can "expect" all he wants. With very limited exception, I'm going to stand at the spot and wait for someone to get me the ball.

Very seldom is it an issue. I'm not going to look to make it more than it is, frustration by a passionate athlete that quickly, (hopefully) dissipates.

I've informed players, and sometimes their teammates, that it's in their interest to get the ball and toss it to me. I do not chase the ball as it's impossible to dead ball officiate while running after a ball.

"During the next time out, B1's coach calls me over and, heatedly tells me that I should have given his player a T. I say coach, it didn't warrant a T."


You giving his player a technical would have been easier than him disciplining his player. Its the same reason why parents like when coaches enforce a curfew, it takes the pressure off their back to be parents.

I've known about this part of the rulebook, and if a player were to put the ball down (in retaliation to a call/no-call) and "expect" me or my partner(s) to get it, I would tell the player at the next opportunity that he needs to give it to an official when the ball is blown and if not done, can be punished by a technical foul. This has always dissipated that "problem", and I've never had to assess a technical foul for this. However, even though I wouldn't want to, once I tell a player this, I would have to assess a technical if the "problem" persists.

My partner called a technical last season when a player slowly rolled the ball away from him - the nearest official. Easy, IMO -- naturally, the coach was unhappy at my partner.

And what was his the coach's rationale for why his player shouldn't be T'd?

Another scenario
 

Thanks. One that happened to me last year during two-man was, I called travelling on a kid who didn't like the call. JV boys. Coach immediately called a time-out, which my partner granted. The kid who I called the violation on still had the ball...I was facing him, and holding my hands out, clearly expecting him to toss me the ball. He purposely (very obviously) let it drop out of his hands, rolling it, and not in my direction. Do you have a T for that?

I have a player joining the time-out huddle a little bit late. :cool:

thanks...I didn't give him the T. That's one of those, that when I was driving home, I thought,"I shoulda T'd him up."

I hate giving T's, but that's one I dropped the ball on.

As an aside, later in the game his coach pulled him for being disrespectful towards his team-mates, and, after the game told me he had been having trouble with the kid.

Personally, like BNR, I would have instructed him to go get the ball. He gets told twice by me, unless he responds to the first one with some sort of teenager rebellion signal, then we'll skip my second request and go straight to the T.

Had a player throw up a three point shot after a timeout had been granted once. Partner told him twice to go get the ball; he either didn't hear or he ignored my partner, so we shot some FTs after the TO was over.