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-   -   Flagrant1 penalty (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/92838-flagrant1-penalty.html)

the girl ref Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:56am

Flagrant1 penalty
 
Shooter A1 is still airborne after attempting a three-point shot when she is fouled by B1. The foul is a flagrant 1 personal foul.

What is the penalty? Does the field goal count for 3 and then get 1 shot and the ball at POA? 2 shots and ball at POA?

APG Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:58am

The penalty for a flagrant 1 personal foul is two shots and the ball at the spot out of bounds closest to where the foul occurred. The only time that isn't true is when a shooter is fouled on a missed three point try. This is assuming you're talking NCAA.

the girl ref Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:01pm

Yes, the shot is successful. So, count the 3 pointer, then she receives 2 shots and the ball at point closest to where the foul occured? Yes, NCAA.

the girl ref Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:20pm

if the shot is unsuccessful, they will be rewarded with 3 shots and then given the ball at the spot closest to where the penalty occurred?

Adam Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by the girl ref (Post 861023)
Yes, the shot is successful. So, count the 3 pointer, then she receives 2 shots and the ball at point closest to where the foul occured? Yes, NCAA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the girl ref (Post 861024)
if the shot is unsuccessful, they will be rewarded with 3 shots and then given the ball at the spot closest to where the penalty occurred?

Correct on both.

grunewar Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:48pm

PS - welcome to the Forum! Great that you jumped right on in!

bob jenkins Sat Nov 03, 2012 01:06pm

That should help with the test. ;)

(And, the answers are the same in HS (for intentional) and NCAAM)

the girl ref Sat Nov 03, 2012 01:59pm

Thank you..Yes, I am finding a lot of the wording on the test questions to make me think twice on my answers...

jeschmit Sat Nov 03, 2012 09:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by the girl ref (Post 861030)
Thank you..Yes, I am finding a lot of the wording on the test questions to make me think twice on my answers...

This is making the test difficult. You really have to get in the book to find the exact language the questions are asking. I'm almost finished with it so I can take it the second time (I passed the first time, but I want to get a 100%)!

Lotto Sat Nov 03, 2012 09:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeschmit (Post 861048)
I'm almost finished with it so I can take it the second time (I passed the first time, but I want to get a 100%)!

Mine didn't tell me which ones I got wrong -- only a final score. Is there any way to know which questions I messed up?

jeschmit Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotto (Post 861050)
Mine didn't tell me which ones I got wrong -- only a final score. Is there any way to know which questions I messed up?

You don't know what you get wrong... That's the crappy part.

Camron Rust Sun Nov 04, 2012 01:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeschmit (Post 861052)
You don't know what you get wrong... That's the crappy part.

If you did, everyone could easily get 100% by just flipping their incorrect answers on the 2nd try.

justacoach Mon Nov 05, 2012 09:15am

Cool your jets
 
After testing period is over, we VA officials get a complete rundown of the results with rules references for incorrect answers. Its there for review, if you care to look.

the girl ref Mon Nov 05, 2012 01:13pm

i have been trying to find every question in the book, but there are a few that 1. I can't find and 2. are maybe over thinking. The wording doesn't help in some instances. I am making myself crazy!

bob jenkins Mon Nov 05, 2012 01:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by the girl ref (Post 861134)
i have been trying to find every question in the book, but there are a few that 1. I can't find and 2. are maybe over thinking. The wording doesn't help in some instances. I am making myself crazy!

Other than the question about the size of the bench area, I found the others to be reasonably straightforward.

Help (although maybe not direct answers) is available.

the girl ref Mon Nov 05, 2012 01:58pm

I think I am probably over thinking this one:

A1, while in possession of the ball, begins her try. During A1 try and before the ball is released, B2 illegally pushes through A2's screen to defend A1 and is whistled for a foul. A1 continues her try and the ball enters the basket.

a.The goal is cancelled and A1 is awarded two free throws.
b.The goal is scored and A2 is awarded a one-and-one bonus.
c.The goal is cancelled and A2 is awarded a one-and-one bonus.
d.The goal is scored and A1 is awarded one free throw.

I have ruled out b & c because nowhere in the question does it state that team A is in the bonus. Also, while it states that B2 illegally pushes through the screen of A2, it also states she is defending A1 and called for foul- to me I think that she fouls A1 while in the act of shooting--- so the goal shall count and should get 1 free throw....

my thought process correct??

maven Mon Nov 05, 2012 02:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by the girl ref (Post 861138)
I have ruled out b & c because nowhere in the question does it state that team A is in the bonus. Also, while it states that B2 illegally pushes through the screen of A2, it also states she is defending A1 and called for foul- to me I think that she fouls A1 while in the act of shooting--- so the goal shall count and should get 1 free throw....

my thought process correct??

Defending A1 is not a foul. The illegal act seems to be B2 pushing through the screen by A2. Thus, B2 has fouled A2, not A1.

Process of elimination leads me to answer (b) as the best choice.

bob jenkins Mon Nov 05, 2012 02:33pm

You're misreading it. B2 fouled A2. "B2 ILLEGALLY PUSHES through A2's screen".

Select the best answer.

MD Longhorn Mon Nov 05, 2012 02:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by the girl ref (Post 861134)
i have been trying to find every question in the book, but there are a few that 1. I can't find and 2. are maybe over thinking. The wording doesn't help in some instances. I am making myself crazy!

Too much "Team A shall not ever fail to prevent not moving into or away from an area not proscribed by an arc no wider than not the distance between his (obligatory ambiguous pronoun) pivot foot and non-pivot feet without failing to prevent moving into said area, unless he does not first fail to dribble and/or fail to dribble the ball between said movements," for ya?

PG_Ref Mon Nov 05, 2012 02:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by the girl ref (Post 861138)
I think I am probably over thinking this one:

A1, while in possession of the ball, begins her try. During A1 try and before the ball is released, B2 illegally pushes through A2's screen to defend A1 and is whistled for a foul. A1 continues her try and the ball enters the basket.

a.The goal is cancelled and A1 is awarded two free throws.
b.The goal is scored and A2 is awarded a one-and-one bonus.
c.The goal is cancelled and A2 is awarded a one-and-one bonus.
d.The goal is scored and A1 is awarded one free throw.

I have ruled out b & c because nowhere in the question does it state that team A is in the bonus. Also, while it states that B2 illegally pushes through the screen of A2, it also states she is defending A1 and called for foul- to me I think that she fouls A1 while in the act of shooting--- so the goal shall count and should get 1 free throw....

my thought process correct??

Also look at rule 4-11 "Continuous motion". May also help to eliminate a couple of answers.

SWMOzebra Mon Nov 05, 2012 02:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotto (Post 861050)
Mine didn't tell me which ones I got wrong -- only a final score. Is there any way to know which questions I messed up?

Yes, when the testing period closes (sometime this Friday 11/9 iirc), you will be able to see your test answers and also the correct answers ... so you'll know which ones you missed and what the correct answer is.

I don't remember if a rules reference will be provided or not.

the girl ref Mon Nov 05, 2012 03:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 861142)
You're misreading it. B2 fouled A2. "B2 ILLEGALLY PUSHES through A2's screen".

Select the best answer.

That was my first thought on this-- but where the choices involving A2 getting fouled only state a one-and-one situation and no mention of BONUS being in effect, I am thrown off. I didn't want to assume.

bob jenkins Mon Nov 05, 2012 03:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by the girl ref (Post 861147)
That was my first thought on this-- but where the choices involving A2 getting fouled only state a one-and-one situation and no mention of BONUS being in effect, I am thrown off. I didn't want to assume.

That's why you choose the best answer. Since there's no option for A2 other than shooting a 1-1, you can assume that IF A2 will shoot, that a 1-1 will be correct.

the girl ref Mon Nov 05, 2012 03:37pm

Ok, using the continuous motion rule, the goal counts and then a2 then shoots a 1-1.

thanks for walking me through this. Sometimes I read too far into the questions...

BayStateRef Tue Nov 06, 2012 01:42pm

This one was poorly written...by not stating whether the bonus is in effect. There is a similar case book play that includes the phrase "Both teams are in the bonus." I think the test writer made a mistake by not using that phrase here.

But since there is no option for a spot throw-in, you have to pick from the available options. The question is testing whether you understand "continuous motion" when the foul is away from the ball -- and what happens when the basket is good.


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