NBA finalizing flopping procedures

[APG]

NBA finalizing procedures that will penalize players for flopping - ESPN

ELIZABETH, N.J. -- The NBA is about to act in hopes of stopping the floppers.

Spokesman Tim Frank said Thursday the league is finalizing procedures to deal with flopping, the art of falling down when little or no contact was made in an effort to trick referees into calling a foul.

Frank said the competition committee met two weeks ago and discussed plans that would go in place this season. Commissioner David Stern believes too many players are deceiving referees by flopping and has been seeking a way to properly penalize them.

The procedures likely will involve a postgame review of the play by the league office, rather than an official calling an infraction during the game, Frank said. Players likely would be fined if the league determined they flopped.

[hoopguy]

As a fan, I would like to see the penanlty be;

1. Fine the player but as a percentage of pay. If a guy makes who 1 million gets fined 10k, then a guy making 20million gets fined 200k.

2. Keep track of flops and at a certain point make the player miss games. Like they do with technical fouls.

[APG]

Originally Posted by hoopguy

As a fan, I would like to see the penanlty be;

1. Fine the player but as a percentage of pay. If a guy makes who 1 million gets fined 10k, then a guy making 20million gets fined 200k.

2. Keep track of flops and at a certain point make the player miss games. Like they do with technical fouls.

This is what is more than likely going to go into effect save for fining a percentage of pay. The league isn't going to fine a player $10,000...much less $200,000. To put it in perspective, a player is fined $2,000 for each T received up to 4...then $3,000 up to 8...$5,000 up to 12...with a 13+ being $5,000 plus a one game suspension and and addtional game for every two after 13.

[jeremy341a]

So how much effort does a player have to exert before it is ok to be knocked down by another player without being fined?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

So how much effort does a player have to exert before it is ok to be knocked down by another player without being fined?

Despite the wishy-washy banter of some here in the past, we all know when a player is trying to embellish the contact and make it look like there was more contact than there really was. It really isn't that hard to tell.

All that needs to be done is to determine if a player was knocked backwards (even if he let himself be knocked backwards) vs. throwing himself backwards.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Despite the wishy-washy banter of some here in the past . . .
All that needs to be done is to determine if a player was knocked backwards (even if he let himself be knocked backwards) vs. throwing himself backwards.

Given that NBE officials are the best of the best, there'd be no reason any of them could possibly, given proper court positioning, miss a "faking being fouled" call if it needed to be called. Now, I certainly don't want to be guilty of "wishy-washy banter", but it sounds like an issue of what's there isn't called when it occurs, right? This is a no-brainer call for those who choose to call it when it happens.
On the other hand, this could only by speculation on my part since I haven't viewed a second of NBA basketball since 1994 or whenever it was that Charles Barkley almost led the Suns to a title prior to his advancement to cunning play-by-play announcer.

(PS: BMac, check your PM)

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Despite the wishy-washy banter of some here in the past, we all know when a player is trying to embellish the contact and make it look like there was more contact than there really was. It really isn't that hard to tell.

All that needs to be done is to determine if a player was knocked backwards (even if he let himself be knocked backwards) vs. throwing himself backwards.

I agree, so it there any purpose in making this a offense which warrents a fine? If they flop then no foul, if they are really knocked over then foul. Seems it doesn't need to go any further than this.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

I agree, so it there any purpose in making this a offense which warrents a fine? If they flop then no foul, if they are really knocked over then foul. Seems it doesn't need to go any further than this.

An extra layer of penalty. In case the officials actually make a foul call, and the added benefit of a negative reinforcement on top of a no-call.

You may see more no-calls, too. I wouldn't want to have a foul call on tape if it's determined by the league to be a flop.

[APG]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

I agree, so it there any purpose in making this a offense which warrents a fine? If they flop then no foul, if they are really knocked over then foul. Seems it doesn't need to go any further than this.

Sure...it's another deterrent. Officials, in game, sometimes will fall for an embellishment no matter how good they are. If there's another deterrent, including fines and possible suspension, it's just another thing in the mind of a player that may make them think twice about embellishing.

Originally Posted by Adam

You may see more no-calls, too. I wouldn't want to have a foul call on tape if it's determined by the league to be a flop.

Doubt it...the league already reviews all tape and will upgrade regular fouls to FF1/FF2 or downgrade fouls as needed...or assess/rescind a T as needed. So this isn't a new thing for NBA officials.

[Adam]

If the fines are going to be publicized, it's a new aspect. Not a major new thing, but it might have a small effect.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by APG

This is what is more than likely going to go into effect save for fining a percentage of pay. The league isn't going to fine a player $10,000...much less $200,000. To put it in perspective, a player is fined $2,000 for each T received up to 4...then $3,000 up to 8...$5,000 up to 12...with a 13+ being $5,000 plus a one game suspension and and additional game for every two after 13.

NBA announces anti-flopping rule

[jeremy341a]

Seems harsh compared to the fines for T's

You must get 16 technical fouls to pay $5k while the 2nd flop has the same fee attached.

[APG]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Seems harsh compared to the fines for T's

You must get 16 technical fouls to pay $5k while the 2nd flop has the same fee attached.

On the 9th T, a player is fined $5,000 and on the 13 T and ever two after (15, 17, 19, etc.), a player is suspended (without pay) one game plus the $5,000.

I do agree the League is being a little more heavy handed with "floppers" because there's been a lot more fanfare and outcry from fans...especially with the really bad embellishments being replayed on ESPN hundreds of times a day.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Seems harsh compared to the fines for T's

You must get 16 technical fouls to pay $5k while the 2nd flop has the same fee attached.

Originally Posted by APG

On the 9th T, a player is fined $5,000 and on the 13 T and ever two after (15, 17, 19, etc.), a player is suspended (without pay) one game plus the $5,000.

I do agree the League is being a little more heavy handed with "floppers" because there's been a lot more fanfare and outcry from fans...especially with the really bad embellishments being replayed on ESPN hundreds of times a day.

I think it has to do with the fact that the flop is deliberately done with the purpose of deceiving the officials and is not attempting to play basketball. T's can be earned in an emotional response to a game situation.

The rules actually support a T in most rule sets (not sure about the NBA). If the officials would just call a few flops as T's, they would stop. But no one has the guts to do it. But, a lot of people here equivocate to no end about why they can't be sure it was a flop if there was some degree of contact. I can tell, even most fans can tell, it isn't hard. The real reason isn't that we can't tell (even though some will still stand by that) but it is that no one wants to be a pioneer in making the tough call.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think it has to do with the fact that the flop is deliberately done with the purpose of deceiving the officials and is not attempting to play basketball. T's can be earned in an emotional response to a game situation.

The rules actually support a T in most rule sets (not sure about the NBA). If the officials would just call a few flops as T's, they would stop. But no one has the guts to do it. But, a lot of people here equivocate to no end about why they can't be sure it was a flop if there was some degree of contact. I can tell, even most fans can tell, it isn't hard. The real reason isn't that we can't tell (even though some will still stand by that) but it is that no one wants to be a pioneer in making the tough call.

I do think that's an element of it, but I don't think you have the NBA going this route if you don't have media people like Jeff Van Gundy ranting for 3-5 minutes (I even posted a clip on here when he did a bit back) during every telecast about the "flop" or if you don't have ESPN, numerous YouTube clips, Twitter, blogs, etc. pointing out/complaining about it. Of course an issue is a lot of lay persons don't comprehend that a player can exaggerate the actual amount of contact, and yet still was fouled.

It's obvious from the NBA that they don't want their officials issuing T's for a flops or it would have been done so already. And it's obvious at other high levels of basketball that their boss's don't want their officials making that call even if their rule sets make that call possible or you would see this called. And the high school level, it's just general frowned on...as you said, the "pioneer call." Other ways we've seen with dealing with this act is the ole "make it a block."