Who's calling 'palming' on this video
 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cRNFqs2-ufU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
would you call this??

not me.

or the official on the court.....

Not I

Not me either.

Peace

Close, but not.

Only if I were ordered to so do.

Not A Popular Opinion, But I'm Being Honest ...
 

In my high school game, I'm probably calling palming (carrying). Shoot me if you guys want to, but that's probably what I'm doing.

A rare instance where Billy and I agree. :D

Nope

Let me ask the OP -- are you asking if we would call it or if we should call it?

(maybe we would call it, but we would be wrong / shouldn't call it.
maybe we wouldn't call it, but we would be wrong / should call it.)

Worth A Thousand Words ...
 

I am not calling the palming/carry violation here.....because it's not a palming/carry violation.

Why does it make any difference what level this is this takes place? I am calling the same at all levels because the rule is the same at all levels I am aware of.

Peace

My Judgment, My Opinion ...
 

That's because you work at least two levels, NFHS, and NCAA, and with your college experience, you probably have a much better understanding of NBA rules than some of us, most certainly me.

I know NFHS rules. Period. I don't know that the rule is the same at all levels, and even if the rule were exactly the same at all levels, how would I know that officials at all three levels interpret the rules exactly the same?

My high school game. This is a carry. I believe that in this situation it's a judgment call, it's a carry, that's my call, and popular, or not, I'm sticking to it. Another high school official may call this differently, and I wouldn't have a major problem with an interpretation other than my own. Like Camron Rust posted earlier, "It's close".

Not a chance. nice hesitation move. Only if he cups it and crosses that ball completely over to the other side would that be a carry.

Billy,

If you have not noticed, officials do not agree on this play no matter their level. So I think this constant focus on what we do at the HS level compared to other levels is silly to me. I call the exact same game at the HS level when it comes to fouls and violations as I do for the college level. The only difference is HS players usually cannot deal with the contact the same way and are not as artful in their committing violations.

Peace

Silly Billy ...
 

It's silly to you because you are familiar, and are aware of, the similarities, and differences, between at least two different rule sets. Every year IAABO gives us a card that lists the differences between NFHS, and NCAA, rules. I never even look at the card because I only care about NFHS rules. Until you told me that a carry in high school is the same as a carry in college, I didn't know that. Now I do, so if I ever have a dream, or a nightmare, that I'm officiating an NCAA game, then I guess I'll call this a carry. Keep in mind that the original video was from an NBA game. Other than watching a few Celtics games every year on television, I have no interest at all in NBA games, and thus I have no interest in, or knowledge of, NBA rules, which why I stated my interpretation for a high school game scenario, not an interpretation relating to the NBA video.

Regardless of whether this video is a carry, this is just flat out wrong.

It he had hesitated there for a bit longer, it would have a carry.

I agree. I thought this was close, in slow motion. I'm unlikely to make this call in a game, and would likely want the whistle back if I did.

I'd pass on it. Like someone else said if he hesitated a little longer than maybe I might have something, but in any case I'll pass.

Close, but I'd pass.

I've looked at life from both sides now..
 

For those who are thinking violation on this might first consider the behind-the-back dribble. Most times there is more "carrying" while executing a b-t-b dribble than ever occurs during a dribble in front of the body. And I've never seen a violation called for a b-t-b dribble.

Dick Bowie would be proud of you for calling the palm !!!!!!

Now as far as you agreeing with BM...... you are now viewed in a new realm on this site !!!!!!!!

As far as the play.....not a palm at the Dome (East Baltimore) or Berry Farms

(Southeast DC), at least if you value your life !!!!!!!

How is any of that wrong? This is the play I just described:
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if that ain't a carry, nothing is.

The part that is wrong is the last sentence. The word "only" makes it an incorrect statement. Palming requires neither "cupping" nor a "cross over."

I like the call made by the T in the 2nd video.

As for comparing them, I don't see them as being the same play. Not at all. So I'm happy that there are different calls.

Yes, that is. But this is not the minimum required to be a carry... your "only..." statement leads us to think that is what you meant... and is what was wrong in what you said.

Walking Dead Offcial ...
 

If Ray Charles was a basketball official, and if he were alive, he would call that (most recent video) a carry. If Stevie Wonder was a basketball official, he would call that (most recent video) a carry. Just sayin'.

And what rule reference would these blind musicians use to justify calling that play a violation?

I think Billy is talking about the second video, not the OP.

Pick Your Poison ...
 

4-15 ART. 1 A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats
(intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once
or several times. It is not a part of a dribble when the ball touches a player’s own
backboard.
ART. 2 During a dribble the ball may be batted into the air provided it is
permitted to strike the floor before the ball is touched again with the hand(s).
ART. 3 The dribble may be started by pushing, throwing or batting the ball
to the floor before the pivot foot is lifted.
ART. 4 The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both
hands.
b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or
both hands.
c. The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.
d. The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to
lose control.
e. The ball becomes dead.

9-5 A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

4.15.4 SITUATION A: As dribbler A1 attempts to change directions to avoid
guard B1, he/she allows the ball to come to rest in one hand in bringing the ball
from the right to the left side of the body. A1 pushes the ball to the floor in an
attempt to continue the dribble. RULING: When A1 palmed/carried the ball, the
dribble ended and when he/she pushed the ball to the floor a violation occurred.
(9-5)

4.15.4 SITUATION B: A1, while advancing the ball by dribbling, manages to
keep a hand in contact with the ball until it reaches its maximum height. A1 maintains
such contact as the ball descends, pushing it to the floor at the last moment;
however, after six or seven bounces, A1’s hand is in contact with the ball and the
palm of the hand on this particular dribble is skyward so that the ball is resting
on top of the hand. RULING: The dribble has ended and a violation occurs if A1
dribbles again. The dribble ended when the ball came to rest in the palm of A1’s
hand. (9-5)

And none so those things happened in the OP video...

Well considering that NF interpreted a carry was "more than a handshake" I did not see that in this video quite that way. The ball on some level is going to come to rest in most dribbler's hand at some point and this just does not pass the smell test for me. There are such things as legal hesitations dribbles. If you only care about NF rules, then it seems really silly to comment on what other levels do when you are not aware. Just so you know, the rules on this are basically the same at all levels of basketball. Heck most rules are the same if you want to know the truth.

I also think that high school officials often try to call any little infraction without really taking a look at the bigger picture of the game. Not saying that is you, but you did point out what you would do in a HS game as if the other levels would do or would be instructed differently. Just pointing out that this is not true.

Peace

I would call it if I thought the action was a violation and, in this case presented by the OP, if the violation gained the attacker an advantage over the defender. As most guys have said, there seems to be a marginal case to be made that the move was a violation. However, I'm a bit suspicious that the angle of the video might not be giving us enough information. It looks possible to me that at the top of the dribble the attacker slightly repositioned his hand so that the ball was momentarily supported by his two bottom fingers. At that point, he seems to beat the defender with a sudden change of direction.

If I were on the floor and the attacker made the described hesitation move but was also able to manipulate the ball sideways by supporting the ball momentarily in order to beat the defender, I would call it. If he changed the ball's direction without supporting the weight of the ball, no call. For me, this one is "had to be there" and it will be all about the angle that you have on viewing the path of the ball.

Second Look ...
 

Throughout my thirty-two years of officiating, I've had many occasions where a player has made a move, as demonstrated in the original video, that caught me by surprise. I've usually "passed" on such a "gray area" call, but filed it back in my brain to be more observant when that player tries such a move later in the game. If the player tries it again, I can be ready to get a really good look at it, apply the rule, apply the philosophy of advantage/disadvantage, see the whole play, and either pass on the play again, or sound my whistle for a violation.

In some cases, if the opportunity presents itself, I may say to the player's coach, usually an assistant coach, during a timeout, "I don't like 32's crossover move. It may be a carry. I'm going to try to get a good look at it", so that if I decide to call the violation, the coach is prepared for the call. I know that some of you guys don't like talking to coaches, and I've been criticized for doing so in the past by local observers, but at this point in my career, I'm not going to change, and most of the coaches seem to appreciate my open communication with them.