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-   -   A Way to Look at "Travelling" (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/92485-way-look-travelling.html)

Freddy Sun Sep 23, 2012 02:52pm

A Way to Look at "Travelling"
 
Ran across this today. Got me to thinking. Have you heard of this before? Is this a valid perspective? Is there any merit to looking at it like this?

"Look at TRAVELLING not so much an error made by a weak athlete, as a mistake forced by a strong defense."

Seems to open up, for discussion purposes at least, a topic or two that might be worth exploring.

Anybody currently use this manner of thinking on the subject?

Freddy Sun Sep 23, 2012 04:02pm

A Step or Two Further on the Topic . . .
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 855586)
"Look at TRAVELLING not so much an error made by a weak athlete, as a mistake forced by a strong defense."

If accepted as valid . . .
A. Might this prompt us to pass on the "ticky-tac" travelling calls that really don't impact play in any significant way?
B. Might this way of thinking be more in according with"officiating the defense"?
C. Might this especially reward the defense for good, pressure play?
D. Would this prompt us to, for sure, catch those travelling violations that would otherwise result in a real advantage over the defense?
E. Could this manner of thinking cause us to miss calls we really should be getting?

Your comment/input/critique invited as I ruminate over this concept.

just another ref Sun Sep 23, 2012 05:50pm

I think I speak for us all when I say: "What the hell?"

JRutledge Sun Sep 23, 2012 08:11pm

I have never heard this statement before and honestly not sure what the point of this statement is in the first place. I just want to call the obvious ones, not the ones were I have to look at slow motion replay to tell if it actually was a travel.

Peace

Adam Sun Sep 23, 2012 08:25pm

I agree with Jeff. It seems like some grand philosophical point that means nothing. It could be used to justify any number of poor officiating philosophies.

stiffler3492 Sun Sep 23, 2012 09:35pm

Sounds like a point that belongs at a coaching clinic.

BktBallRef Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:52pm

I have one way of looking at traveling...which foot is the pivot?

Freddy Mon Sep 24, 2012 06:57am

Nolo Contendere
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 855590)
If accepted as valid . . .

I appreciate and agree with the responses, except maybe the first one. :rolleyes:
This concept is not really valid. Too complex an idea :confused: to be of any real, practical use.
Thanx for the reactions.

tref Mon Sep 24, 2012 08:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 855622)
I have one way of looking at traveling...which foot is the pivot?

AND did the player have possession during that time.

So many times guys call a travel based on the excess movement of the feet, with no look (backs & butts) at the status of the ball.

Lotto Mon Sep 24, 2012 09:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 855586)
"Look at TRAVELLING not so much an error made by a weak athlete, as a mistake forced by a strong defense."

My philosophy: Look at TRAVELLING as occurring when a player holding the ball moves a foot or both feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits described in Rule 4-72 of the 2011-13 NCAA rulebook.

Adam Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 855651)
AND did the player have possession during that time.

So many times guys call a travel based on the excess movement of the feet, with no look (backs & butts) at the status of the ball.

This is a good point, and I'll add that so many coaches start screaming based on the same thing; especially when a player doesn't catch the ball upon first contact while he's running.

BillyMac Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:36pm

Travellin' Man ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 855676)
Many coaches start screaming based on the same thing; especially when a player doesn't catch the ball upon first contact while he's running.

They confuse a catch with a touch.

tref Mon Sep 24, 2012 01:44pm

Definitions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 855692)
They confuse a catch with a touch.

And sometimes a touch with a catch. Ie; tapping an offensive rebound into the b/c.

BktBallRef Mon Sep 24, 2012 06:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 855651)
AND did the player have possession during that time.

So many times guys call a travel based on the excess movement of the feet, with no look (backs & butts) at the status of the ball.

If he isn't holding the ball, there is no pivot foot.

tref Mon Sep 24, 2012 07:14pm

You know that, I know that, BillyMac knows that, but there are some new officials out there too. Your reply could've been misinterpreted by a lesser experienced official.

The point (and not directed to you) was, don't call travels based soley on the movement of the feet when you can't see the ball.

BktBallRef Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 855747)
You know that, I know that, BillyMac knows that, but there are some new officials out there too. Your reply could've been misinterpreted by a lesser experienced official.

The point (and not directed to you) was, don't call travels based soley on the movement of the feet when you can't see the ball.

So I should have replied to your post...

"AND it wasn't a thrower during a throw-in."

...since your reply could've been misinterpreted by a lesser experienced official, since you didn't include that a thrower can't travel during a throw-in. :rolleyes:

tref Tue Sep 25, 2012 09:12am

That's quite a reach
 
I thought we were talking live ball plays to the basket, going away from the official.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 855651)
So many times guys call a travel based on the excess movement of the feet, with no look (backs & butts) at the status of the ball.

Apparently others did too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotto (Post 855662)
My philosophy: Look at TRAVELLING as occurring when a player holding the ball moves a foot or both feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits described in Rule 4-72 of the 2011-13 NCAA rulebook.

but ummm, okay.

JugglingReferee Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 855586)
Ran across this today. Got me to thinking. Have you heard of this before? Is this a valid perspective? Is there any merit to looking at it like this?

"Look at TRAVELLING not so much an error made by a weak athlete, as a mistake forced by a strong defense."

Seems to open up, for discussion purposes at least, a topic or two that might be worth exploring.

Anybody currently use this manner of thinking on the subject?

To answer your question, I don't deeply use this manner of thinking for this subject. However, there are actions by Team B that are keys for a possible travel.

Eg: B3 knows they are too late to intercept an outlet pass. Instead, B3 positions herself such that ball carrier A3 will be surprised when A3 turns to start dribbling upcourt. B3's defensive tactic could alert an official that B3 may have a strategic position advantage causing A3 to travel.

This is similar to B3 setting a trap just across the DL. Team A now has a short court because they can't go back past the DL.

A football analogy is if B is in poor defensive position, you might see an arm bar. If B is in great position, not only may you not see an arm bar, you might even see a touchback. ;)

I don't believe that the bolded statement is an "end all and be all" to officiate traveling, but I do believe that smart defense can cause offensive mistakes.

Scrapper1 Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:03pm

Shouldn't there be a traveling quiz posted in the near future? I think it's been missing for a couple seasons.

Camron Rust Wed Sep 26, 2012 03:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 856166)
Shouldn't there be a traveling quiz posted in the near future? I think it's been missing for a couple seasons.

Traveling Quiz...

1. Where would you most like to go....
A. Aruba
B. Belgium
C. Croatia
D. Disneyword

2. What is your preferred mode of transportation for long trips....
A. Airplane
B. Boat
C. Car
D. Donkey

Is that what you had in mind?

BktBallRef Wed Sep 26, 2012 04:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 856166)
Shouldn't there be a traveling quiz posted in the near future? I think it's been missing for a couple seasons.

Only a travel agent would ask.

Scrapper1 Wed Sep 26, 2012 07:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bktballref (Post 856215)
only a travel agent would ask.

lol!!!

:D :D :D

BktBallRef Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:33pm

Here ya go!

TRAVELING QUIZ

True OR False

1. A passport is not needed to take a cruise.

2. Real vanilla flavoring is better than imitation vanilla flavoring.

3. Shore excursions are more expensive if purchased through the cruise line.

4. Prescription drugs can be purchased over the counter in Cozumel.

5. Jamaica is absolutely the worst Carribean island cruise ship port.


This quiz courtesy of Pioneer Valley Cruise Planners.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 855586)
Ran across this today. Got me to thinking. Have you heard of this before? Is this a valid perspective? Is there any merit to looking at it like this?

"Look at TRAVELLING not so much an error made by a weak athlete, as a mistake forced by a strong defense."

Seems to open up, for discussion purposes at least, a topic or two that might be worth exploring.

Anybody currently use this manner of thinking on the subject?


If Mark, Jr., said that this was how he was going to call traveling I would smack him up side his head.

MTD, Sr.


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