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BillyMac Sat Sep 08, 2012 06:01pm

Association Culture ...
 
I have been asked to write an article for our local association newsletter on the "culture" of our local association. Over the past few years there have been many changes in our association. Our long time assignment commissioner/secretary/treasurer passed away, and our long time interpreter retired. They both held a tremendous amount of power, and it wasn't very democratic, it was either their way, or the highway. More recently we merged with a non-IAABO board that was known for mostly assigning a few girls high school games in our geographic area, so we suddenly acquired a large number of "new" veteran members. On top of all that, our recent cadet training classes have been filled to capacity, maybe due to the poor economy. So we find ourselves in a position where we have lots, and lots, of new members, that really don't have a sense of what is expected of them in terms of "unwritten rules" regarding local expectations. These new members, even the new "veteran" members, are moving through their association officiating career like a "ship without a rudder", or "like the blind leading the blind".

I've posted my article below. The purpose of my post is to satisfy my own curiosity regarding what many of you expect of your local association members, not in terms of rules knowledge, and mechanics, but in terms of the "little things" that make your guys not only good basketball officials, but also good association members. I'm looking forward to hearing about what is expected in other associations. Of course, in my post, below, some references have been redacted to protect the innocent.

“The Best” – The Board XXX Culture
By BillyMac

Much is expected of Board XXX officials, expectations that go beyond the rule book, case book, and mechanics manual. Outlined below are some of the “unwritten rules’ that have been developed over the years by Board XXX officials that, when adhered to, make Board XXX “The Best”.

Board XXX officials are expected to confirm their games. Email addresses for athletic directors, faculty managers, or site directors, as well as your partners, are on the Arbiter website. The email should state the gender, level, site, day, date, and time of the game, along with one’s contact information, sent to both the school, and to one’s partner. A confirmation, emailed in this manner, looks professional, and assures everyone that the officials have been properly assigned for the game.

Officials can check if other games are scheduled at their site by looking on the CIAC website. It can be very frustrating for varsity officials to show up ninety minutes early to observe a junior varsity game, when, for some reason, there was no junior varsity game scheduled. Private prep schools are notorious for “odd” game schedules. Private prep school games do not appear on the CIAC website. These games can be viewed on the host private prep school’s website.

When you arrive at a game site, people immediately judge you by your appearance. Make a good first impression by coming to game sites dressed professionally in business casual attire. Consider purchasing a sweater, pullover, or vest, with an IAABO logo, or a Board XXX logo. Common sense dictates that some afternoon assignments may require officials to arrive in uniform, or in work clothes. Middle school sites may lack secure dressing areas, and may not have shower facilities available.

For most high school games, where secure dressing areas, and showers, are available, do not come dressed in uniform, and do not come dressed in sneakers, work boots, jeans, T-shirts, etc. It looks bad, and reflects poorly on Board XXX. On court, your uniform should be clean, pants pressed, all black shoes shined, jacket unwrinkled, and you should be well groomed. Officials should shower after the game and not leave wearing a uniform. Doing so could give the impression that the official wants to “get in, get out, and get paid”, which is not the impression that Board XXX officials want to present. Officials should leave the game site together. Even in this day in age when everyone has a cell phone, and many have some type of “road assistance”, it’s not fun sitting in a cold car, in a lonely parking lot, with a dead battery, or a flat tire, waiting for help to arrive.

The four officials at a high school game site should work together as a team. Varsity officials should arrive at the game site no later than the beginning of the second period of the junior varsity game. Junior varsity officials should stay and observe the varsity game until at least halftime of the varsity game in order to learn by watching experienced officials. Many varsity officials try to show up for the beginning of the junior varsity game, and many junior varsity officials will often stay to observe the entire varsity game. The overlap will insure that an official is available if one of the officials at the site becomes ill, or injured. Board XXX expects veteran officials to observe and offer constructive appraisals, with specific suggestions, to less experienced officials. Board XXX expects less experienced officials to seek out, and ask for input, from the more experienced officials. Partners are expected to offer constructive appraisals to each other. “What did you see?” is an easy way to start a post-game conversation.

Always show hustle, and enthusiasm, in every Board XXX game that you have been assigned to work. Treat every game as the most important game of the season. Work every game as if it was your last game, and the most important game, of your career. That game is the most important game being played that night for the players, coaches, and fans, at that site. Officiating in this manner will solidify the reputation of Board XXX as “The Best”.

Freddy Sun Sep 09, 2012 01:17pm

I approve

BktBallRef Sun Sep 09, 2012 02:41pm

Nice article, certainly reasonable expectations except...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853712)
Varsity officials should arrive at the game site no later than the beginning of the second period of the junior varsity game.

Really???

Freddy Sun Sep 09, 2012 03:20pm

Neat If It's Done by All
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853712)
Varsity officials should arrive at the game site no later than the beginning of the second period of the junior varsity game. Junior varsity officials should stay and observe the varsity game . . .

Wow. If only . . .

Is this an expectation, customary practice, or a goal and a vision toward which your association is working?

Camron Rust Sun Sep 09, 2012 04:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 853820)
Nice article, certainly reasonable expectations except...



Really???

Why not?

It is recommended that we arrive about 1 hour before game time....which would would usually be somewhere between time the JV 2nd Q starts to somewhere in the middle of the 2nd Q.

Not everyone does that (some cut it to less than 30 minutes), but it is the expectation for varsity games.

BktBallRef Sun Sep 09, 2012 04:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 853828)
Why not?

Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive.

Here, JV games start at 4 or 430, varsity at 6. To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter, we would need to arrive no later than 15 minutes after the game starts. I travel anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes for a game.

So yes, leaving at 3pm for a 6pm game to arrive arrive 1 3/4 hours early for a JV game I'm not even working would be excessive here. I know very few officials with public jobs who could leave that early from work, even on a semi-regular basis.

BillyMac Sun Sep 09, 2012 05:57pm

"Mr Customs Man" (Arlo Guthrie) ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 853823)
Is this an expectation, customary practice, or a goal and a vision toward which your association is working?

This is what is presently expected, and up until a few years ago, we were all doing it, however, as I alluded to in my original post, only the grizzled veterans have been doing this the past few years. Many of the the young whippersnappers don't seem to understand the "customs" of our local association. I can't tell you how often junior varsity officials have left the site, without showering, in uniform, before the jump ball of my varsity game. They don't even wave goodbye as they run out the gym door. Years ago, our, now deceased assignment commissioner/secretary/treasurer, or our long time interpreter, now retired, would have ripped these guys a new orifice.

I've been asked to publish this article to give them a clue, in writing, about our previously unwritten customs.

Of course, back in the mid-twentieth century, we didn't use email to confirm our games. Most made a phone call either the day before, or that day. A few of us found it more convenient to use "snail mail" post cards to confirm our games. Individually, we had custom made post cards printed out with our contact information already printed on it, with spaces to print in the day, date, and time of the game.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. would send his confirmations by Pony Express if there was no telegraph office near the school.

BillyMac Sun Sep 09, 2012 06:10pm

Observations, Evaluations, Ratings, Rankings ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853712)
The four officials at a high school game site should work together as a team. Varsity officials should arrive at the game site no later than the beginning of the second period of the junior varsity game. Junior varsity officials should stay and observe the varsity game until at least halftime of the varsity game in order to learn by watching experienced officials. Many varsity officials try to show up for the beginning of the junior varsity game, and many junior varsity officials will often stay to observe the entire varsity game. The overlap will insure that an official is available if one of the officials at the site becomes ill, or injured. Board XXX expects veteran officials to observe and offer constructive appraisals, with specific suggestions, to less experienced officials. Board XXX expects less experienced officials to seek out, and ask for input, from the more experienced officials. Partners are expected to offer constructive appraisals to each other. “What did you see?” is an easy way to start a post-game conversation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 853820)
Really???

Yes. The way our rating, and ranking, system works, each official rates the other three officials at the site (remember Connecticut is a two person game state). If you don't observe, how can you fairly rate?

BillyMac Sun Sep 09, 2012 06:19pm

Tempus Fugit ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 853832)
Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive. Here, JV games start at 4 or 430, varsity at 6. To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter, we would need to arrive no later than 15 minutes after the game starts. I travel anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes for a game. So yes, leaving at 3pm for a 6pm game to arrive arrive 1 3/4 hours early for a JV game I'm not even working would be excessive here. I know very few officials with public jobs who could leave that early from work, even on a semi-regular basis.

Most junior varsity games, here in my little corner of the Provisions State, start at 5:30 p.m., with varsity games starting at 7:00 p.m. The longest trip that we could have to get to a game in our "little corner" is a little less than an hour, so an average trip is probably about thirty minutes. I'll leave work at 5:00 p.m., get to the game site at 5:30 p.m., observe three quarters of the junior varsity game, head for the dressing room at the beginning of the fourth period, toss the jump ball for my varsity game at 7:00 p.m., end the game around 8:15 p.m., shower, and either head home, or head to one of our local "watering holes", getting there around 8:45 p.m.

$89.76 for four hours of travel, observations, and running up and down a basketball court. Can't beat it.

Camron Rust Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 853832)
Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive.

Here, JV games start at 4 or 430, varsity at 6. To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter, we would need to arrive no later than 15 minutes after the game starts. I travel anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes for a game.

So yes, leaving at 3pm for a 6pm game to arrive arrive 1 3/4 hours early for a JV game I'm not even working would be excessive here. I know very few officials with public jobs who could leave that early from work, even on a semi-regular basis.

2-3 hours? just to get there by the 2nd Q? I can leave 2 hours before several of my games and get to the site by the start of the JV game. If I left 3 hours before my game, I'd almost get there in plenty of time to dress for the JV game and be on the court at 15:00, even for games an hour away.

It seems that your JV to Varsity separation may be a bit larger than here. Ours are never more than 1:45 apart and sometimes 1:30.

I consider getting there during the 2nd Q (most of the time) to be my buffer against the random unexpected traffic problems. As soon as I try to get the 30-40 minutes before game time (which would get me there about halftime of the JV game), I'd be certain to hit traffic and arrive late.

Adam Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853848)
Yes. The way our rating, and ranking, system works, each official rates the other three officials at the site (remember Connecticut is a two person game state). If you don't observe, how can you fairly rate?

Here, V officials are expected to arrive an hour before game time, which typically gets them there in time for the half-time mid-game discussion. HS subvarsity, 45 minutes, but 30 minutes isn't going to get you in trouble (especially in Freshman games). If a JV official wants an evaluation, it's his or her responsibility to contact one of the varsity officials working the following game and ask them to come in time to watch the first half.

JV officials are expected to stick around for the first half of the varsity game, although skipping out out on this a few times a year won't get you in trouble.

BktBallRef Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 853890)
2-3 hours? just to get there by the 2nd Q?

You didn't read what I wrote.

"Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive.

Example: My game starts at 6pm and is a 1:15 drive. I would leave at 4:00 as to arrive 45 minutes before game time. Usually we're traveling as a crew so there's plenty of time to talk basketball. I'm not in a metropolitan area, so I don't have traffic concerns.

To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter of the JV game, I would have to leave by 3pm.

JV game starts at 4pm. They typically end around 5:30 but there's always the ocassional long game or OT. At 5:40, 15 minutes goes on the game clock. At 5:55 we have the National Anthem and introdi=uction so we can toss the ball at 6pm.

So yes, leaving 3 hours before MY scheduled game time of 6pm is excessive and I would not do it.

BktBallRef Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853849)
Most junior varsity games, here in my little corner of the Provisions State, start at 5:30 p.m., with varsity games starting at 7:00 p.m. The longest trip that we could have to get to a game in our "little corner" is a little less than an hour, so an average trip is probably about thirty minutes. I'll leave work at 5:00 p.m., get to the game site at 5:30 p.m., observe three quarters of the junior varsity game, head for the dressing room at the beginning of the fourth period, toss the jump ball for my varsity game at 7:00 p.m., end the game around 8:15 p.m., shower, and either head home, or head to one of our local "watering holes", getting there around 8:45 p.m.

$89.76 for four hours of travel, observations, and running up and down a basketball court. Can't beat it.

Glad it works there. It wouldn't work here.

We work a GV/BV doubleheader and get $85, no travel. My $85 would be for 8 hours or travel, observations and running up and down a basketball court. No way am I leaving at 3pm to get back home at 10:30-11:00.

JRutledge Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:28am

We are usually asked to get to a game an hour before our scheduled game time if working a varsity contest. Usually not entirely difficult to accomplish as most games start at 7:30 or even 7:00. It is easier to get to some places than others obviously and we are not assigned by an association. So there are assignors will consider that before making assignments. My personal goal is to try to get to the site when the game before me starts, but not possible based on where I have to go in many cases.

Peace

BillyMac Mon Sep 10, 2012 06:09am

Pride ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 853899)
Glad it works there.

That's the problem. It doesn't work here; anymore. It used to work here, until about five, or ten, years ago, and then all our local customs seemed to "go out the window".

I observed a young official work a game with shoes that were almost as much white, as black. I mentioned it to him after his game. He explained to me that the black and whites were not his regular pair, and that he almost always wore all black shoes. The next time I observed him, he had on the same black and white shoes. I've also observed young officials show up for a game in street clothes consisting of torn sneakers, dirty, beat-up jeans, and a T-shirt, certainly not business casual.

BillyMac Mon Sep 10, 2012 06:22am

Confrimations ??? Leaving Site ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853712)
Board XXX officials are expected to confirm their games. The email should state the gender, level, site, day, date, and time of the game, along with one’s contact information, sent to both the school, and to one’s partner. A confirmation, emailed in this manner, looks professional, and assures everyone that the officials have been properly assigned for the game.

Officials should leave the game site together. Even in this day in age when everyone has a cell phone, and many have some type of “road assistance”, it’s not fun sitting in a cold car, in a lonely parking lot, with a dead battery, or a flat tire, waiting for help to arrive.

Anybody have any local customs regarding confirming games, or leaving the site together.

I don't drive away until I see my partner's headlights go on after he starts his car. Then I watch my rear view mirror to make sure he gets off to a good start. That's how I was taught over thirty years ago. Of course, that was before the cell phone was invented.

grunewar Mon Sep 10, 2012 06:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853915)
Anybody have any local customs regarding confirming games, or leaving the site together.

I don't drive away until I see my partner's headlights go on after he starts his car. Then I watch my rear view mirror to make sure he gets off to a good start. That's how I was taught over thirty years ago. Of course, that was before the cell phone was invented.

I will always confirm my games via email at least 48 hrs in advance and ensure I have my P's cell phone numbers with me just in case. On a few occasions this has helped me tremendously.

While we will walk out of the venue together after the game, once we get to our cars, that's it for me (unless we're going for a meal).

Adam Mon Sep 10, 2012 07:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853911)
That's the problem. It doesn't work here; anymore. It used to work here, until about five, or ten, years ago, and then all our local customs seemed to "go out the window".

I observed a young official work a game with shoes that were almost as much white, as black. I mentioned it to him after his game. He explained to me that the black and whites were not his regular pair, and that he almost always wore all black shoes. The next time I observed him, he had on the same black and white shoes. I've also observed young officials show up for a game in street clothes consisting of torn sneakers, dirty, beat-up jeans, and a T-shirt, certainly not business casual.

Maybe it's time you revisit some local customs and decide which ones are worth standing for and which should go. Also, if you're going to get upset when people refuse to comply, it may be best to add it to written expectations rather than "customs."

Rich Mon Sep 10, 2012 07:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 853923)
Maybe it's time you revisit some local customs and decide which ones are worth standing for and which should go. Also, if you're going to get upset when people refuse to comply, it may be best to add it to written expectations rather than "customs."

I agree. I have no desire to watch 3/4 of a JV game every time I'm onside to work a varsity contest. If a JV official wants me to evaluate him, he should ask me and I would happily do so.

Otherwise, we arrive at 6:30 for a 7:30 start and about half the time I go straight to the locker room to warm up and dress. Depending on the game and the officials I may watch a quarter of the JV game, but that's up to me.

Perhaps your local customs are too onerous and it's time to figure out what's really important. Many people have jobs and need to stay at the office as long as they can. This is an avocation, which is one step up from a hobby, for many people.

Freddy Mon Sep 10, 2012 08:01am

Here's One Thing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853915)
Anybody have any local customs regarding confirming games . . .

Yes, and this might be helpfully applicable in your coastal area as well. Several years ago our assigner got the request from the AD's that only the R confirm to the school during the week prior to a contest. Especially with three-man (as in "human" not as in "anti-woman") crews, the AD's were getting triple the number of necessary emails clogging their busy boxes. So now it is up to the two U's to confirm to the R who then singularly confirms the crew to the AD.
Works well now.
Unless one of the crew is still a Luddite . . .

JRutledge Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853915)
Anybody have any local customs regarding confirming games, or leaving the site together.

I don't drive away until I see my partner's headlights go on after he starts his car. Then I watch my rear view mirror to make sure he gets off to a good start. That's how I was taught over thirty years ago. Of course, that was before the cell phone was invented.

We are supposed to confirm the games, but it is really up to each individual how they do this specifically.

Our state has every school number and Athletic Office Personnel listed. I tend to call the Administrative Assistant for each school as they are easier to get in contact with than the AD. Athletic Directors tend to be faculty members that either teach or have other responsibilities, so I want to speak to the Administrative Assistant as they have everything in front of them and can tell any official what they need to know about attending a game. I do not like email as email tends to get answered in someone's own time. I also like to call the AA the day before or the day of based on the weather or other factors that could influence game situations.

Peace

Freddy Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:30am

Going On 26 Years Now
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 853948)
I also like to call the AA the day before or the day of based on the weather or other factors that could influence game situations.

"Hi, my name is _____________, and I'm a basketball official . . ."

"Hi, _____________!"

BillyMac Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:42am

All The News That's Fit To Print ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 853923)
if you're going to get upset when people refuse to comply, it may be best to add it to written expectations rather than "customs."

Thus the purpose of me being asked to write this article for our local newsletter. Our local board got too big, too quick, and customs somehow didn't get passed down from "father to son".

BillyMac Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:52am

Customs ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 853923)
Maybe it's time you revisit some local customs and decide which ones are worth standing for and which should go.

One "custom" that can't go, without major revisions in our rating, and ranking, process, is the "custom" of varsity officials arriving early to observe the junior varsity game, and junior varsity officials sticking around to observe the varsity game. Each official at the site (usually four here in Connecticut) is responsible to evaluate, and rate, the other officials at the site. It's pretty difficult to evaluate and rate when you don't observe an official.

Regarding the other customs, confirming games, business casual dress, proper uniform, leaving site together, etc., in my personal opinion, and in the opinion of our local leadership, those are worth keeping. I know that the economy is bad, and I know that more than just a few officials think of officiating as a supplemental part time job, but as a thirty-plus year veteran, who is very proud of our local board, I just don't like the "get in, get out, get paid" attitude. In my personal opinion, basketball officiating, particularly on the high school level, should be more than just "get in, get out, get paid". Obviously some of our new guys don't agree with me.

BillyMac Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:11pm

Changes To Come ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853963)
One "custom" that can't go, without major revisions in our rating, and ranking, process, is the "custom" of varsity officials arriving early to observe the junior varsity game, and junior varsity officials sticking around to observe the varsity game. Each official at the site (usually four here in Connecticut) is responsible to evaluate, and rate, the other officials at the site. It's pretty difficult to evaluate and rate when you don't observe an official.

We are considering some major changes in our rating system. We are considering not allowing new junior varsity officials (first year, second year, maybe third year) to rate varsity officials. However, they should probably stick around to observe the varsity guys, even if they don't have to rate them, they might learn something.

Freddy Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:25pm

An Approach re. "Tribal Knowledge"
 
Seems, from what you're saying about yourself as an association, your group needs to analyze what essential things there are about which veterans are aware by virtue of "tribal knowledge" and how newbies come to acquire that body of knowledge bit-by-bit over a long--perhaps too long--a period of time.
Locally I'm becoming aware that new inductees simply don't know what's expected of them unless oriented in some way by someone.
Many veterans consider the need to convey such simple expectations ridiculous because, after all, they already know that themselves. Truth be told, it takes a long time and a lots of learning opportunities for "tribal knowledge" to take full hold in a newer person. Doing what you're doing certainly goes a long way to overcome that.

BillyMac Mon Sep 10, 2012 01:13pm

Tribal Knowledge ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 853973)
Your group needs to analyze what essential things there are about which veterans are aware by virtue of "tribal knowledge" and how newbies come to acquire that body of knowledge bit-by-bit over a long period of time.

Our problem is that we got too big, too fast. We went from a group of about 200 plus guys, mostly veterans, to a group of more than 325 guys (merger with another board, several really big cadet classes), mostly new guys. Our "my way or the highway" leaders (dictators) left, or died, and unwritten rules got "lost in the wind".

Rich Mon Sep 10, 2012 01:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853985)
Our problem is that we got too big, too fast. We went from a group of about 200 plus guys, mostly veterans, to a group of more than 325 guys (merger with another board, several really big cadet classes), mostly new guys. Our "my way or the highway" leaders (dictators) left, or died, and unwritten rules got "lost in the wind".

Maybe that's for the better. Step back and consider if the old guard (which you're a part of) could better serve your officials by backing off some of those unneeded rules.

I guarantee you if I had to show up for 5:50PM to watch the entire JV game, I'd likely not be working. I have a day job, after all.

BillyMac Mon Sep 10, 2012 02:03pm

I Am Curious Yellow ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 853992)
Backing off some of those unneeded rules. I guarantee you if I had to show up for 5:50PM to watch the entire JV game ...

I can guarantee that the "custom" of a varsity official showing up for the second period of the junior varsity game will never change (Note: It has never been a requirement to show up for the entire junior varsity game, although many of us do so voluntarily). Varsity officials are expected to evaluate, critique, and rate, subvarsity officials. That's how subvarsity officials improve, and move up the ranks, or in some cases, always remain subvarsity officials, even getting really bad subvarsity schedules. That's the basis of our local rating, and ranking, system, which dictates the level, and number, of games one is assigned.

Rich: I really didn't want this thread to go in this direction, but I'm curious. Outside of showing up, or staying, to watch the other end of the doubleheader, what other "customs" do you find unneeded (confirm games, business casual, proper uniforms, not showing up in uniform, not leaving in uniform, leavng site together, etc.)? I'm not looking to start a debate here (to each his own), I'm just curious.

JRutledge Mon Sep 10, 2012 02:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 854001)
I can guarantee that the "custom" of a varsity official showing up for the second period of the junior varsity game will never change (Note: It has never been a requirement to show up for the entire junior varsity game, although many of us do so voluntarily). Varsity officials are expected to evaluate, critique, and rate, subvarsity officials. That's how subvarsity officials improve, and move up the ranks, or in some cases, always remain subvarsity officials, even getting really bad subvarsity schedules. That's the basis of our local rating, and ranking, system, which dictates the level, and number, of games one is assigned.

Don't you guys have trainings, meetings or camps? There are a lot of ways to get better or to be evaluated as officials than the game they are working on a particular night. Heck the officials could stay and watch the varsity game and then ask questions and learn from watching. You have mentioned ratings and I am confused why these ratings matter so much? You mean to say if I were a varsity official and saw someone that I felt could do that job or that I saw work I would gladly work with them in the future, my rating is the only thing that matters? I guess I am not understanding why the ratings are more important than some gut about who has the stuff and who does not.

Peace

Adam Mon Sep 10, 2012 04:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853968)
We are considering some major changes in our rating system. We are considering not allowing new junior varsity officials (first year, second year, maybe third year) to rate varsity officials. However, they should probably stick around to observe the varsity guys, even if they don't have to rate them, they might learn something.

Some things are cultural: JV officials staying for the first half of the varsity game, for example. Others are actual expectations that are spelled out in writing: not showing up for varsity games in jeans, for example.

As for the reliance of your rating system upon officials coming way early or staying way late:
1. Why do you have JV officials rating varsity officials? That seems like a waste of time. Do any varsity officials actually take such critique seriously?
2. Why not leave it up to the JV officials to request and schedule their evaluations? That's how we do it, and it works. All officials are expected to get three evaluations per season, and it's up to us to contact evaluators ahead of time so they come early.
3. Every time I get a chance, when I know there's a respected official watching any portion of my game, I ask "Did you see anything" (or something to that effect). This gives me a lot of informal feedback.

This system doesn't require varsity officials to get there obscenely early every single game (which as Rich points out, wouldn't be possible for most of them to do).

Here's an example of cultural expectations that should be passed down:

My first season in a different association, I got assigned as the driver to a road trip. I drove and didn't think twice about it.

At the next meeting, we had "break out" sessions with "dilemmas" to go over, and one of the groups was given the following "dilemma." "The driver to your out of town game is given a mileage check, but doesn't buy snacks and drinks for the road."

I got the message, but it would have been nice to avoid that embarrassment to begin with.

Rich Mon Sep 10, 2012 04:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 854016)
"The driver to your out of town game is given a mileage check, but doesn't buy snacks and drinks for the road."

I got the message, but it would have been nice to avoid that embarrassment to begin with.

Stupid message. Do the riders chip in for your gas and wear/tear costs?

Adam Mon Sep 10, 2012 04:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 854019)
Stupid message. Do the riders chip in for your gas and wear/tear costs?

$10 out of a $40 mileage check isn't huge, but I agree with you.

Raymond Mon Sep 10, 2012 05:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 854016)
...
I got the message, but it would have been nice to avoid that embarrassment to begin with.

With my friends, the driver nevers buys any of his own snacks or fast food meals. Passenger take care of all that. If there is no mileage stipend, then passenger(s) also take care of the gas if it's a long trip.

grunewar Mon Sep 10, 2012 05:53pm

I wish.......
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 854019)
Do the riders chip in for your gas and wear/tear costs?

We only have a few schools that are waaay out there where we earn a stipend. The few times I have driven my P's I have been surprised and sorely disappointed that they haven't even offered.......oh well. We're not in it for the money, right? :rolleyes:

But still.........common courtesy for me.

Adam Mon Sep 10, 2012 06:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 854038)
We only have a few schools that are waaay out there where we earn a stipend. The few times I have driven my P's I have been surprised and sorely disappointed that they haven't even offered.......oh well. We're not in it for the money, right? :rolleyes:

But still.........common courtesy for me.

Here, the stipend is considered sufficient. We get a $2 bonus on our city games, but occasionally will car pool to the long ones (some of these games are upwards of 30 minutes (without traffic) from my house. On those, when I ride with someone, I'll offer something (even of it's just a beverage).

BktBallRef Mon Sep 10, 2012 06:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853911)
That's the problem. It doesn't work here; anymore. It used to work here, until about five, or ten, years ago, and then all our local customs seemed to "go out the window".

I was referring to your system of evaluating fellow officials and showing up in the 1st quarter of the JV game.

You don't have retired officials or board officers who could conduct evaluations, especially on newer members.

grunewar Mon Sep 10, 2012 06:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 854039)
On those, when I ride with someone, I'll offer something (even of it's just a beverage).

I'll stop by and pick you up! :p

BillyMac Mon Sep 10, 2012 07:27pm

Ratings, Rankings, Games Assigned ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 854009)
You have mentioned ratings and I am confused why these ratings matter so much? I guess I am not understanding why the ratings are more important than some gut about who has the stuff and who does not.

Our officials rate every official that they see in a board assigned game, be it as a partner, as an observer of the other game in the doubleheader, or as someone just sitting in the stands. These are numerical ratings are based on:

APPEARANCE AND CONDITIONING
Official is in physical condition and exhibits hustle and energy through the game.
Official’s uniform and overall appearance is neat, clean and well kept.

MECHANICS
Utilizes proper mechanics, up-to-date techniques and procedures as detailed in the IAABO Officials Manual.
Performs accurate foul reporting and clock administration.
Has a resonant, strong voice that is supported by proper mechanics for purpose of clarification.

TEAM WORK
Has the ability to work effectively as a “team” with his/her fellow official.
Arrives on time; actively participate in the pre-game.
Actively participate in the post-game.
Accepts criticism.
Shares the responsibility and avoids attempts to shift the blame.

JUDGMENT
Presents a thorough knowledge of the rules of basketball.
Uses unbiased judgment and common sense in applying the rules of the game.
Appears to make his/her decision with consideration to the effect the calling, or equally as important, the not calling of a rule violation will have.
Is consistent in all calls regardless of situation or point of time in the game. For example, consistency in the determination of a block vs. a charge.
Reacts quickly enough to make a decision at the moment of its occurrence.
Makes quick and positive decisions, especially with respect to the “close ones”.

GAME MANAGEMENT
Demonstrates control of the game.

LEADERSHIP, ABLE TO RUN THE GAME
Communicates with coaches, partners and table.
Is courteous and polite
Exhibits a confident manner i.e. attention to detail, alertness, firmness, and
timeliness of his/her reaction to a situation.
Remains consistent when calling violations or fouls without regard to the score, whom it may hurt, or how it may effect future relations with the coach. Has a quiet influence on the game that relieves tensions and creates a steady effect upon contestants (both players and coaches alike).
Has control of his/her emotions.
Takes the time to prevent an error from being made.

Peer ratings make up 80% of an officials overall rating for the year. The remaining 20% is based on general meeting attendance, attendance at the refresher exam meeting (full credit if you show up with an exam with answers, right answers, or wrong answers), and an assignment commissioner rating (availability, up to date Arbiter information, turnbacks, missed assignments, etc.).

Ratings are tabulated and averaged in with the previous two year's ratings, to come up with a three year average. The three year average is used to calculate the official's ranking in the local board (325 members, so basically a ranking of 1 to 325, with a few caveats). The rankings are used by the commissioner to assign games, the higher the ranking the higher the level of games assigned (middle school, freshman, junior varsity, varsity) and the more games an official can be assigned (minimum five, maximum forty three).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 854016)
Why do you have JV officials rating varsity officials? That seems like a waste of time. Do any varsity officials actually take such critique seriously?

There is a proposal on the table that new subvarsity officials (first year, second year, maybe third year) not rate varsity officials. And, yes, we do take these ratings from subvarsity officials seriously since they count just as much as ratings from varsity officials (see above).

BillyMac Mon Sep 10, 2012 07:31pm

Learn By Observing ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 854009)
Heck the (junior varsity) officials could stay and watch the varsity game and then ask questions and learn from watching.

The good ones do, staying for the entire varsity game, and participating in the post varsity game conference, and they often move up faster than the ones that don't. That's one of the reasons (there are others, i.e. ratings, fill in for injured, or sick varsity official, remember, we're a two person state) why we want the junior varsity officials to stay until at least halftime of the varsity game.

BillyMac Mon Sep 10, 2012 07:47pm

Observe Two Periods ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 854042)
I was referring to your system of evaluating fellow officials and showing up in the 1st quarter of the JV game.

Showing up for the jump ball of the junior varsity game is strictly voluntary, although many of us try to do it. Varsity officials are expected to be there at the start of the second period, observe two periods of the junior varsity game, and then retreat to the dressing room at the beginning of the junior varsity fourth period.

Back more than thirty years ago, when I started, junior varsity games pretty much universally started at 6:00 p.m., and varsity games started at 7:30 p.m. Today, most junior varsity games start at 5:30 p.m., and most varsity games start at 7:00 p.m.

BillyMac Mon Sep 10, 2012 07:50pm

Good Idea, But ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 854042)
You don't have retired officials or board officers who could conduct evaluations, especially on newer members.

We've thought about it, but the numbers just don't add up. Too many active officials. Too many schools. Too many games. Not enough interested retired officials. Not enough money to give retired officials a stipend to evaluate talent. We've had problems just trying to set up a few mentor-mentee pairings.

Camron Rust Mon Sep 10, 2012 08:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 853896)
You didn't read what I wrote.

"Because leaving 2-3 hours early for a 6pm game is excessive.

Example: My game starts at 6pm and is a 1:15 drive. I would leave at 4:00 as to arrive 45 minutes before game time. Usually we're traveling as a crew so there's plenty of time to talk basketball. I'm not in a metropolitan area, so I don't have traffic concerns.

To arrive before the beginning of the second quarter of the JV game, I would have to leave by 3pm.

JV game starts at 4pm. They typically end around 5:30 but there's always the ocassional long game or OT. At 5:40, 15 minutes goes on the game clock. At 5:55 we have the National Anthem and introdi=uction so we can toss the ball at 6pm.

So yes, leaving 3 hours before MY scheduled game time of 6pm is excessive and I would not do it.


I did read what you wrote....it appears we're working under a different set of assumptions that were not clear to me.

I was commenting on a JV game usually starting 1.5 hours before and you were talking about a 2 hour separation (it seems).

You were talking about doing a pregame in route where I was under the assumption you'd meet at the game site....as is the case 99% of the time here.

You're not in a metro area, I am (and most officials are...a majority of the people in the US live in urban areas). Due the unpredictability, I'm a lot more comfortable targeting arrival 1 hour before....leaves time for problems...and I have used up so much time on occasion that I still arrive 30 minutes before tipoff.

All that said, I'd agree with you that getting there by the start of the 2nd Q under your circumstances is a bit excessive.

JRutledge Mon Sep 10, 2012 09:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 854050)
The good ones do, staying for the entire varsity game, and participating in the post varsity game conference, and they often move up faster than the ones that don't. That's one of the reasons (there are others, i.e. ratings, fill in for injured, or sick varsity official, remember, we're a two person state) why we want the junior varsity officials to stay until at least halftime of the varsity game.

Why not come up with some "best practices" that have seemed to work, instead of mandating rules that have holes in actual application.

Peace

zm1283 Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:17pm

LOL, I wish our longest trip was 30 minutes. I'll be lucky if I get two sub 30-minute trips per week this season. We have some schools really close, and some very far away....up to two hours one way.

BillyMac Tue Sep 11, 2012 06:01am

Mandates ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 854061)
Why not come up with some "best practices" that have seemed to work, instead of mandating rules that have holes in actual application.

All of these "customs" worked for over twenty of the thirty-one years that I've officiated. As I said earlier, our recent problems with these customs seems to be related to a sudden influx of new officials unlike anything we've ever seen in the history of our local board, and the "more democratic, less dictatorial" style of recent leadership.

Nothing mentioned in my article is mandated. It's expected, but not mandated. There is no penalty for not following any of these expectations.

We're just trying to be a professional organization, one that we can all be proud of. Many years ago, athletic directors would often comment on how professional we were compared to other sports associations, that we never seemed to act in a "get in, get out, get paid" manner, we arrived professionally in dress clothes (ties, and maybe jackets back then), and that we were always trying to help, and educate each other. We seldom hear comments like those anymore. How sad?

REFANDUMP Tue Sep 11, 2012 03:20pm

It seems odd to me that varsity officials would be getting evaluations done by JV officials who in many cases would want to take their jobs. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

BillyMac Tue Sep 11, 2012 04:18pm

Yes, That's Right, I Said Black Belts ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP (Post 854162)
It seems odd to me that varsity officials would be getting evaluations done by JV officials who in many cases would want to take their jobs.

Which is why there is a proposal on the table that the newer subvarsity officials (first year, second year, maybe third year) not rate varsity officials. The reasoning behind the proposal is that officials with only a few years under their "black belts" may not know how to properly rate varsity officials.

Adam Tue Sep 11, 2012 04:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 854167)
Which is why there is a proposal on the table that the newer subvarsity officials (first year, second year, maybe third year) not rate varsity officials. The reasoning behind the proposal is that officials with only a few years under their "black belts" may not know how to properly rate varsity officials.

I'm more curious about the reasoning behind having JV officials rate varsity officials anyway.

1. Why do you need an evaluation every single game? That seems excessive and overly burdensome.

2. In general, I wouldn't think it's appropriate to have evaluations done by lesser officials actually count towards anything meaningful.

IOW, I agree with the proposal you mention, but I don't think it goes far enough. I don't think officials should be giving evaluations until they're working varsity games, at least not evaluations that carry any weight towards rankings, assignments, or status. Why would a 5 year JV ref have any input to give a 20 year varsity ref? I don't get it.

BillyMac Tue Sep 11, 2012 06:06pm

Do The Math ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 854172)
Why do you need an evaluation every single game?

The more ratings an official gets, the more accurate the ratings are going to be.

BillyMac Tue Sep 11, 2012 06:08pm

Three And Ready ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 854172)
I don't think officials should be giving evaluations until they're working varsity games.

Around here, officials who work three seasons after their "cadet" season are eligible to work some varsity games. Maybe it won't be high level varsity games. Maybe it won't be a ton of varsity games, but they are considered eligible.

Adam Tue Sep 11, 2012 07:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 854180)
The more ratings an official gets, the more accurate the ratings are going to be.

Not if they're being done by officials who have no business giving evaluations.

And I didn't say the evaluations should be done by people "eligible" for varsity.

Publius Tue Sep 11, 2012 07:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 854181)
Around here, officials who work three seasons after their "cadet" season are eligible to work some varsity games. Maybe it won't be high level varsity games. Maybe it won't be a ton of varsity games, but they are considered eligible.

I'm starting to take nearly all the best young officials away from the old-guard association where I live in the sport I officiate. I occasionally see second-year guys who can already work rings around some of the old guard, and they work varsity--NOW. If they get the job done with white on their shoes, <i>viva la blanca</i>, I say. Tenure in and of itself doesn't mean a whole lot to me. If a second-year guy and a ten-year guy are approximately even in ability, they get about the same amount of work.

Don't misunderstand--nearly all of my top guys have a few notches in their belts. Experience matters, but it isn't all that matters. If a guy is ready at age 20, he's ready. Ask the California Angels and the Washington Nationals.

BillyMac Wed Sep 12, 2012 06:41am

What ??? They Don't Wear Sansabelts ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Publius (Post 854184)
Nearly all of my top guys have a few notches in their belts.

I assume that the belts are all black.

Rich Wed Sep 12, 2012 08:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Publius (Post 854184)
I'm starting to take nearly all the best young officials away from the old-guard association where I live in the sport I officiate. I occasionally see second-year guys who can already work rings around some of the old guard, and they work varsity--NOW. If they get the job done with white on their shoes, <i>viva la blanca</i>, I say. Tenure in and of itself doesn't mean a whole lot to me. If a second-year guy and a ten-year guy are approximately even in ability, they get about the same amount of work.

Don't misunderstand--nearly all of my top guys have a few notches in their belts. Experience matters, but it isn't all that matters. If a guy is ready at age 20, he's ready. Ask the California Angels and the Washington Nationals.

There is the rare 20 year old who's ready, but you have to count experience somehow, too. I'm less interested in technical proficiency at times and more interested in how an official reacts when the s&@# hits the fan. I'm not saying that a more experienced official will handle situations better, but I've probably had to see more situations and deal with more crap than a second year official, and that should count for something.

Of course there's always the official that has one year of experience 25 times...

SE Minnestoa Re Wed Sep 12, 2012 04:31pm

Showers? Secure dressing rooms? :D

I don't know about these places. Places we go to get ready include a teachers' lounge where people are coming in and out all the time, a band room, the end of the bench, coach's offices and training rooms. A few places have good places to change but often that is only if it is a boy's game.

I work varsity only at generally smaller schools. My partner and I come dressed but with our regular winter outerwear on. Can't shower if there is no shower.

Do I care? Not really. I am there to work the game to help the players.

I like a lot that your members need to confirm games. Our regulations require it but unless there is an issue, I don't know if all the officials do it. I do find that younger people don't like rules as much as guys my age (late 50's) so our association tries to not be overburdensome.

Adam Wed Sep 12, 2012 05:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SE Minnestoa Re (Post 854265)
Showers? Secure dressing rooms? :D

I don't know about these places. Places we go to get ready include a teachers' lounge where people are coming in and out all the time, a band room, the end of the bench, coach's offices and training rooms. A few places have good places to change but often that is only if it is a boy's game.

I work varsity only at generally smaller schools. My partner and I come dressed but with our regular winter outerwear on. Can't shower if there is no shower.

Do I care? Not really. I am there to work the game to help the players.

I like a lot that your members need to confirm games. Our regulations require it but unless there is an issue, I don't know if all the officials do it. I do find that younger people don't like rules as much as guys my age (late 50's) so our association tries to not be overburdensome.

Interesting. I've worked small town rural games, and we've always had a place to dress, even when there's been no shower. I can live with that, but I'd have a hard time accepting having to change my shoes on the end of the bench for a varsity game.

As for confirming games. We're supposed to as well, but the only way you'll get in trouble for not doing it is if someone doesn't show. At that point, it's good to have the email traffic, "Hey Bob, Billy didn't show up. But he said he was coming."

I prefer email for that reason (and others), but I'll make a phone call if I haven't heard back the day before a game. With the advent of Arbiter, I confess I'm not as good about confirming with the school as I am with getting a hold of partners.

BillyMac Wed Sep 12, 2012 06:16pm

Game Confirmations ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 854270)
As for confirming games. We're supposed to as well, but the only way you'll get in trouble for not doing it is if someone doesn't show.

I confirm every game that I'm assigned to. On a few occasions I have received replies from athletic directors that go something like this: "Your email confirmation reminded me that we switched that game from 7:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. because of mid-year exams. I forgot to make the change with your assignment commissioner. I will contact him right away."

If I didn't confirm that game, and then no officials showed up for the 4:00 p.m. game, who do you think would get blamed? If you answered the athletic director, then your half right. My assignment commissioner would question me as to why I didn't confirm the game, so, in essence, I would share the blame with the athletic director.

It's not a steadfast rule that we always confirm games, but it's very strongly recommended. When things go smoothly, not confirming games isn't a big problem. But when things get screwed up, that's when our assignment commissioner gets really upset with us for not confirming games, and as all of you know, officials don't want to go around upsetting their assignment commissioners. It's not very healthy to do that. Am I right?

Raymond Wed Sep 12, 2012 06:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SE Minnestoa Re (Post 854265)
...
I work varsity only at generally smaller schools. My partner and I come dressed but with our regular winter outerwear on. Can't shower if there is no shower.

Do I care? Not really. I am there to work the game to help the players.
....

This is something I do care about. I'm expected to show up at games (I only work varsity) dressed a certain way so I expect to be able to shower and leave the venue the same way, especially in winter temperatures. I sweat profusely and if the game has any type of fast-breaking my shirt is going to be soaked. If they aren't going to provide a shower then I should be able to show up in a sweat suit.

grunewar Wed Sep 12, 2012 07:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SE Minnestoa Re (Post 854265)
Showers? Secure dressing rooms? :D

100% of the time here. Some of course are better than others. It is greatly appreciated.

BillyMac Wed Sep 12, 2012 07:43pm

Delicious Schweddy Balls ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 854277)
100% of the time here. Some of course are better than others. It is greatly appreciated.

68 of the 70 high schools we service here in my little corner of Connecticut have secure dressing areas, and showers. I don't get out of work early enough to work middle school games, but I understand that secure dressing areas, and showers, in middle schools are as rare as a World Series titles for the Chicago Cubs, and most officials come dressed in uniform, and expect to leave in uniform, for a long sweaty ride home.

zm1283 Wed Sep 12, 2012 07:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 854276)
This is something I do care about. I'm expected to show up at games (I only work varsity) dressed a certain way so I expect to be able to shower and leave the venue the same way, especially in winter temperatures. I sweat profusely and if the game has any type of fast-breaking my shirt is going to be soaked. If they aren't going to provide a shower then I should be able to show up in a sweat suit.

We have showers in some places, and don't in a lot of other places. It just depends. Several of the bigger schools with newer gyms have dressing rooms they built in their gyms specifically for officials, which always have showers. Our dress code is very relaxed. We wear jeans and some even wear sweats.

We are strongly encouraged and reminded to confirm game times. We ride together to games 99 percent of the time so we always contact partners either way.

DRJ1960 Wed Sep 12, 2012 09:02pm

showers
 
Showers?

I've only worked Basketball for 5 seasons... only had ONE opportunity to shower after a game.

Lcubed48 Thu Sep 13, 2012 03:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRJ1960 (Post 854286)
Showers?

I've only worked Basketball for 5 seasons... only had ONE opportunity to shower after a game.

For top quality accommodations, maybe you should think about switching boards? :D:D

grunewar Thu Sep 13, 2012 04:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 854279)
but I understand that secure dressing areas, and showers, in middle schools are as rare as a World Series titles for the Chicago Cubs, and most officials come dressed in uniform, and expect to leave in uniform, for a long sweaty ride home.

At this level we still always got a private, most times secure place to change. Showers were 50/50. I still never went to or from a game in uniform, regardless.

Raymond Thu Sep 13, 2012 08:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcubed48 (Post 854305)
For top quality accommodations, maybe you should think about switching boards? :D:D

I sent my paperwork in. :cool:

Multiple Sports Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRJ1960 (Post 854286)
Showers?

I've only worked Basketball for 5 seasons... only had ONE opportunity to shower after a game.

Sounds lile a combination of too many Christian school and middle school games!!!!!!!!

Multiple Sports Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:39am

BNR - Boo Williams
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 854316)
I sent my paperwork in. :cool:

You guys can't even get a shower in the officials room at one of the nicer AAU facilities in the country !!!!!!!

Raymond Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports (Post 854335)
You guys can't even get a shower in the officials room at one of the nicer AAU facilities in the country !!!!!!!

Believe me, I complained about that on Day 1.

At first we they didn't even want to give us any place to change. I'll take partial credit that we even got those 2 converted storage rooms.

DRJ1960 Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:54pm

variety is the spice of life...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports (Post 854333)
Sounds lile a combination of too many Christian school and middle school games!!!!!!!!

I get my share of AAA Varsity here in Central Va... and I've seen every Private and Small School gym south of the James ;)

Raymond Thu Sep 13, 2012 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRJ1960 (Post 854353)
I get my share of AAA Varsity here in Central Va... and I've seen every Private and Small School gym south of the James ;)

AAA schools should be at least be providing you with an office adjacent to a shower.

Publius Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 854210)
There is the rare 20 year old who's ready, but you have to count experience somehow, too. I'm less interested in technical proficiency at times and more interested in how an official reacts when the s&@# hits the fan. I'm not saying that a more experienced official will handle situations better, but I've probably had to see more situations and deal with more crap than a second year official, and that should count for something.

Of course there's always the official that has one year of experience 25 times...

I agree almost 100%. Some veteran guys are great when the sh!% hits the fan. The problem is, they're the ones causing it to splatter. Generally speaking, you're absolutely right. The only point I'm making is that guys who are ready shouldn't be held back because they haven't worked some arbitrary number of years. Those guys are sometimes not 20, but 30 and cops or retail store managers with a fabulolus resume when it comes to dealing with sh!%. I don't make them wait if they demonstrate proficiency, and consequently, the cream of the newby crop wants to work for me.

I like giving able young guys opportunities. It's great having 25-year-olds with five years of experience dealing with situations. They don't become proficient by watching. I think any association that has a policy of making every official wait X number of years before they can get varsity assignments ought to revisit that policy.

Rich Fri Sep 14, 2012 09:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Publius (Post 854406)
I agree almost 100%. Some veteran guys are great when the sh!% hits the fan. The problem is, they're the ones causing it to splatter. Generally speaking, you're absolutely right. The only point I'm making is that guys who are ready shouldn't be held back because they haven't worked some arbitrary number of years. Those guys are sometimes not 20, but 30 and cops or retail store managers with a fabulolus resume when it comes to dealing with sh!%. I don't make them wait if they demonstrate proficiency, and consequently, the cream of the newby crop wants to work for me.

I like giving able young guys opportunities. It's great having 25-year-olds with five years of experience dealing with situations. They don't become proficient by watching. I think any association that has a policy of making every official wait X number of years before they can get varsity assignments ought to revisit that policy.

We agree 100%.

I also think that some people (for whatever reason) are rushed into assignments they aren't ready for. Sometimes there is some other factor involved that jumps them over a bunch of officials that have been waiting for their opportunity for no good reason, too. Every situation is different.

Lcubed48 Fri Sep 14, 2012 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 854316)
I sent my paperwork in. :cool:

Good for you. :cool:
See ya next month. Don't forget the dress code! ;);)

DRJ1960 Fri Sep 14, 2012 03:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcubed48 (Post 854498)
Good for you. :cool:
See ya next month. Don't forget the dress code! ;);)

and the shampoo.....

Raymond Sat Sep 15, 2012 07:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRJ1960 (Post 854536)
and the shampoo.....

Obviously you don't know what I look like...LOL

JRutledge Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 854587)
Obviously you don't know what I look like...LOL

+1

Peace

Lcubed48 Sun Sep 16, 2012 02:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 854587)
Obviously you don't know what I look like...LOL

Shaving cream, yes. Shampoo, no.

grunewar Sun Sep 16, 2012 06:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 854587)
Obviously you don't know what I look like...LOL

Maybe it's best that way..... ;)

Freddy Sun Sep 16, 2012 07:46am

BM Question
 
McBilly,
Having read through all the thoughtful and wise responses solicited by your original inquiry in this thread, have we given you enough to go on? Get any responses that you especially appreciated and can incorporate in your article? Anything missing you wish you would have gotten input on? Did we give you enough to go on?

BillyMac Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:02am

Curiosity Killed The Cat ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 854657)
Having read through all the thoughtful and wise responses solicited by your original inquiry in this thread, have we given you enough to go on? Get any responses that you especially appreciated and can incorporate in your article?

I really wasn't looking for anything new to incorporate into my article since my article was specific to my local association. I was just curious about expectations for officials in other local associations:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 853712)
The purpose of my post is to satisfy my own curiosity regarding what many of you expect of your local association members, not in terms of rules knowledge, and mechanics, but in terms of the "little things" that make your guys not only good basketball officials, but also good association members. I'm looking forward to hearing about what is expected in other associations.

One thing that I found very interesting, mainly because it is so "foreign" to me, was the idea of car pools and assigned responsibilities, driving, snacks, mileage, etc. Those concepts just would never work here. The way our geographic area is set up, the longest drive that anyone could possibly have is one hour, even during a congested rush hour. Most drives are less than thirty minutes. We have over 325 officials, and about seventy high schools, and officials either come from work, or from home, thus we have lots of permutations. On weekdays, I always go directly to a game from work. Other guys have more flexible day job hours and often will stop at home to get their "stuff" and kiss their wife, and kids, before going to a game site. With these conditions, the stars have to align themselves in such a rare way for a car pool to exist that in thirty-one years I have only carpooled about a dozen times. Probably less. It kind of reminds me of the Red Sox teams of the past, twenty-five players, twenty-five taxis (twenty-five six packs of Bud Lite, twenty-five buckets of Popeye's chicken).

Regarding the fact that we allow subvarsity officials (not cadets) to evaluate and rate varsity officials, it's been that way for at least thirty-one years. We recently took a close look at our rating, and ranking, system and one recommendation is to not allow inexperienced officials to evaluate, and rate "up".

Regarding varsity officials getting to a site early, and junior varsity officials staying late at a site, we've been doing that for at least thirty-one years, and it's been working well for all but the last several years. Our local board used to be all about education, that is, officials helping fellow officials became better at officiating scholastic basketball. Nobody ever questioned why they were at the site early, or why they stayed late at the site. We just did it to improve our association. The most common phrase heard in the locker room was "So? What did you see out there tonight?". Partners asked this of each other. Varsity officials asked this of junior varsity officials. Junior varsity officials asked this of varsity officials. Now, we just don't hear that enough anymore. The rapid influx of new guys over the past several years has changed the way we do business. Many of the new guys want to just "get in, get out, and get paid". There's really nothing wrong with that, especially in the economic climate today, it's just that it's not the way that I've been used to.

Regarding our business casual dress code. Back when I was a cadet official, we were expected to wear dress shoes, dress slacks, a dress shirt, and a tie to games. We were even encouraged to wear a sports jacket to our private prep school games. The switch from shirt and tie to business casual has been a welcome change that has brought us into the twenty-first century. Not taking a shower just didn't ever seem to be an option. Coming to a game in uniform, or leaving a game in uniform, just wasn't ever an option. These weren't options because we never wanted to give anyone (athletic directors, principals, coaches, players, parents, fans) the impression that we just wanted to "get in, get out, and get paid".


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