Whack a mole
 

Had to play whack a mole tonight. A T on an AC who thought he could stand and call traveling that he thought I missed. Then another on him as he sarcastically cheered as I reported the first one. First coach I've tossed.

By your 20th you won't even think it's unusual.

I've not worked a lot of this summer ball before this year, and these are my first MAYB games. Interesting mix of coaches.

So the coach thought everyone came to see him?

Yeah, pretty much.

You see things in summer you would never see or hear during the regular season. Interesting is a nice way to put their behavior.

Peace

So It Is ...
 

Amen.

In one summer I've seen five seasons worth of middle school coach bs. I've also seen a lot of good, though.

Baby, bath water and all that.

Snaqs:

It felt good didn't it? ;)

MTD, Sr.

First coach you've ever tossed? If you, welcome to the club! ;)

I've been officiating 15 years and only ever thrown out one coach. And there was only one other time when I wished I had afterwards. If I ever get to 20, I'll be really surprised.

I've out right tossed one coach by giving him two T's....and gave another coach his second T after my partner had whacked him earlier. Not surprisingly, both times was during summer ball.

23 years and only 2 coaches...can't imagine having to toss 20. Crazy.

I've had a partner give two Ts to a coach once (YMCA). But this was my first.

Are we counting regular season games or these summer/off-season contests. If that is the case I have no idea how many I have sent to the showers. I know I ejected a coach in AAU this year and one during the college season this past season. I cannot remember the last ones before those times. Then again I have not counted either.

Peace

Never had to toss anyone in basketball (I doubt I'll get to ten, let alone twenty), only once ever, in soccer, an AC in a U-12 girls' tournament. He was also a parent.

I'm always curious about what motivates such behavior that will get one tossed. Of those coaches you all tossed, how many were also parents?

I am certain the woman that I got rid in the AAU game a few weeks ago was a parent. If not a parent, certainly closer to one than a coach.

Peace

Summer ball, most coaches, especially ACs, are parents.

Sadly, the HC in my game should have been done as well. I called one on him as I tried to explain why he was seat belted. I couldn't get the first sentence out before he brought up a first half situation that I had to shut him down on.

Game manager came (running both gyms at this location) and baby sat him, and also gave him a bit of a rules lesson (I'm guessing he now understands the concept and consequences of indirect technical fouls.)

This is the reason that most HS and college coaches cannot stand AAU coaches. For one they hardly can coach. Secondly they have no idea of rules or standards, which is why I had to constantly explain how to call a timeout to a particular coach (from Oklahoma BTW). And then I had another coach suggest that I had to give a warning before I T'd her behind up (from Michigan), but somehow left when I gave the second T without incident.

Peace

I get that. To his credit, he came up and apologized to me after the game was over.

During a Hoop Groop game I T'd A1 for elbowing B1 in the chest after I had just whistled B1 for a foul. Coach A then proceeded to tell me what a great kid A1 is and finished his monologue by stating that I should have given a warning first. :rolleyes: Ironically Coach A earned his own T 2 or 3 minutes later (while his team was shooting free throws).

My experience as well! As a young official, I started working some higher level AAU ball this summer and ran into nutty coaches. Truth be told I was taken aback at the behavior I saw because the regular HS season is not like that. I know it was a great learning expereince and I did npt handle everything right. To top it off my summer assignor was watching and he chatted with my partner and I whho is also a young official.

My concern is hopefully this one game will be viewed just as that one game and not held against me!

Well if anyone has any sense that you work with, they will realize the cesspool that AAU can be and is with many officials. Again if I go to a college camp and there are 2 or 3 ejections and the coaches are crying to clinicians about why they got ejected, then that is all you need to know about what happens in these leagues. That is why I said I doubt seriously that anything happening in these games as it relates to coaches is going to be accurately evaluated or set a standard for your entire career. I do not know about you, but here no one gives these games out with the intention to prove something. Heck the only thing that is considered in my area is often you want the most experience or respected officials working the title games if you can. But since many experienced officials either refuse or do not make themselves available for these games in the first place, this is often whatever officials are around works the best games available. And in the tournament I worked, there were many officials working games that were over their head from a talent and level perspective.

Peace

Seems I'm good for about 1 a year - never know which sport it's going to pop up in though. 18 years in 2 sports, 7, 3, 3, 1, and 1 in others. My first? a 5 year old boy in football. My 2nd? Same kid a few weeks later. My 3rd an announcer.

It got more normal after that.

me too.....
 

I've only tossed one coach. Rec League. Blah, blah, blah.......

His team was down by a bunch when he left and came back to win...... whoda thought? :rolleyes:

I Demand A Recount ...
 

That doesn't even count.

If you're doing AAU and haven't ejected a coach, you haven't been doing AAU.

Actually I've never ejected an AAU coach. I've T'd up my share but have never had to send one packing.

I've whacked my fair share for sure. But the opportunity hasn't presented itself and I guess I haven't felt they crossed the line.

But, I have three games tonight.... "So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*" ;) (Dumb and Dumber quote)

Okay, I'm intrigued. Details, please?

Worked a US Junior Nat'l 12th grade Girls tourny last night. Team A played a bad first half (turnovers, missed layups, missed FTs) and looked to initiate contact on offense. The players didnt get many of the alleged fouls they thought took place & were down by 12 at halftime with a 6-5 foul count. Coach didnt have any questions or comments during the first half.

Im L walking toward the division line (our chairs at the table) & coach A yells, "BLOW YOUR WHISTLE DOWN THERE!!" Whack...

Then he says, "What? :confused: Im just TELLING YOU to do YOUR JOB!!" Goodnight...

Team B makes 3 of 4 to start the second half, Team A is fired up & plays a helluva second half losing by (of course) 3.

The parents are giving me the biz for the entire half, the asst coach says nothing to us, we let him stand to coach. No harm, no foul, its summertime.

After the game the asst coach walks up & starts the old "you guys decided the game" routine. My partner told him the coach earned his Ts. Dude wasnt buying it, saying how hey couldve went to OT if it werent for the Ts, yada-yada-yada. I finally suggested that he take his L like a man & walk it off. He complied!!!
It doesnt pay to be nice, I should've sat him down! :(

Team As players came & shook our hands even though they lost. After being heckled for 16 minutes, that felt great as it showed that the players knew we called a good game & didnt have it out for them. They obviously know their coach & a few of their moms are idiots :rolleyes:

The 5-year old simply started beating the hell out of another kid, right in the middle of a play. Easy and obvious EJ. Was surprised to see him out there a couple of weeks later, and never saw him again after the 2nd incident.

The announcer was just a parent, on a PA system. Early in the game my partner actually had to tell him to stop being Howard Cosell during the play. The play was going toward my partner, and right as they handed the ball off for a reverse, the announcer told us all, "It's a REVERSE!!!!", tipping off the othre team.

Anyway, later in the game it was one of those plays where the RB hits the pile and the pile simply keeps moving forward, very very slowly. We didn't blow it, as he was still moving forward, when the PA guy goes nuts, "Blow it dead!" "Blow it dead! He's stopped!!!" (He wasn't). "GD-bomb, stop the F-ing play!" (still not dead). "What the F is wrong with you!!!"

Play finally goes down (I bet it was 15 yards in 30 seconds), and both partner and I go toss him. Turned out it was his kid.

I have....and it turned out he was actually a HS coach from a different part of the state....and it turned out that, a couple years later, I was assigned his team's game in state championship quarterfinal. He didn't say much to me that night. :)

Had to eject a coach a few weeks ago at a Hoop Group event in Philly...... The guy said he wasn't going to leave and one on the Hoop Group guys came over and told the guy he was going to have to leave if they wanted to play in anymore of their events. He left ( after he called me a cheater. a *****, a
punk) and an intern for the Hoop Group coached the rest of the game...........................and surprisingly NO PROBLEMS !!!!!!!!!!

So, uh, guess who threw out a coach tonight. . .? :rolleyes:

Way 2 handle your biz Scrapper1 :)

My apologies.

Cussin? Excessive BS?

Threw out my first this summer. Well earned.

During my first couple of years of summer officiating, I personally gave 2 techs to a coach. The techs were very much earned, but someone - and I'm sure you would give the same, snaqs - encouraged me to follow a bit of protocol that might help reduce the odds that I would give the 2nd tech and increase the odds that my partner would whack him. I've stuck with that since then, and it has seemed to work well.

It's helped me be more accountable to my partner should I be administering that 2nd tech and it's kept me from giving that 2nd tech.

Bad news during the summer though, and I experienced this last week, I may have a partner that is less than willing to back you up and give that 2nd technical. I was forced to walk all the way across the floor and whack a coach a second time for calling me an expletive. I was irritated with the coach, but moreso in my partner for not having my back.

Finished venting.....

You bang him, I'll run him
 

Unfortunately the "he wasnt talking to me" guy works during the real season as well. I hate when a tag team situation presents itself but only one official has the courage to do the dirty work.

While I would have preferred to have my partner call the second, his stunt was performed 10 feet away from me as I was reporting his first T. The opportunity just wasn't there.

IDK Snaqs, I guess it all boils down to our partners game awareness & willingness to take care of biz.
Personally, I have eyes on the coach after my partner whacks him. Especially while he's walking away &/or reporting the T! I'd like to think that while you're reaching for the whistle, I'm sticking.

I know its summer, but by the description of when the 2nd T came it doesnt sound like you & your partner conversed after the 1st one??

I was standing by the table as I called it (I was T in transition), so I just turned to report it. It would have been interesting to see how the AC responded had I instead jogged to my partner before reporting.

The way it happened, I just didn't give my partner a chance to call it. I was right there, I was the target of the AC's "criticism," so I just dealt with it.

ugh

Heck, summer time is the perfect time to learn, sharpen and/or hone skills. Game management skills (including, but not limited to, adminstering technical fouls) is always a great skill to sharpen or at least become more confident in.

At least, that's the way I look at summer even though most of what I do aside from assignor camps is 2 man instead of 3 man mechanics.

Adult league play-offs. The game was supposed to be a blow-out, but the lower-seeded team was actually hanging very close. It was probably a 6 point game at this point.

This guy just went bat-bleep crazy. He complained about a call on one trip down, then absolutely just flipped over a perceived no-call on the next trip. Cursing, jumping, out on the court. Just totally out of control. I whacked him. One of his players then told me what he thought about the call. So I whacked him, too.

In truth, I should have run the coach with a second T right then; but I walked away and he thankfully calmed down enough that he was (barely) under control.

Then in the second half, his player dribbles into a double-team trap, gets stripped and the coach wants a foul and again just goes insane. So I whacked him again. His player then throws the ball over the fence and into the street. So my partner whacked him.

The coach -- surprise! -- doesn't want to leave. He left. :)

He might as well leave. The alternative is GAME OVER.:D

Of course it's game over......they don't have the game ball! ;)

Yeah they usually do/say what they're gonna do/say whether we converse with a partner or not. But getting with the partner usually gives them an opportunity to get in on the act.

What? Are you that guy?

No way, that wouldn't be me.

Even when working with a partner that seems uninterested in maintaining his own integrity, much less mine, I'm going to follow protocol and support him. It's the right thing to do. Better believe I have a talk with him at half time or post game, though.

Fortunately, I can't say I've had that type of experience (or partner) in a varsity game - yet. But, all too often (once or twice) it happens when working an MAYB or local tournament during the off season, usually when it's a tournament directed by an out of state or area group that brings in a lot of officials from their area that are game whores and are probably there just to get a check and survive the weekend.

My badd I misunderstood what your "ugh" meant.

I whacked a coach this last year. I report the T and take the ball to administer free throws as we pre-gamed. The coach is talking to my partner a lot and still seems pretty mad.
One of the teams calls timeout and my partner walks up to me and says something along the lines of "You should hear what this coach is saying about you!" I asked what he said and got a response with the phrase "This young ahole thinks he can give me a T just because...blah blah blah. I won't see his *** again this year after I call (assigner's name)." I asked him why didn't send him home. He answered because he didn't want to do the paperwork.
I ended up running the coach and doing paperwork for that, and a nice email to my assigner as to why I don't want to see that partner again.

Good job on your part. It's a good bet you're not the first partner that other official has sold down the river.

No sweat. :)

Beserk -

It sounds like you were right by administering both T's and then filling out the appropiate paperwork, however I WOULD NOT have sent the assigner an e-mail as to why you don't want to "see that partner again." I have been an
assigner at the hs level for 15 yrs and IMO you wouldn't be in my good graces
for that e-mail. Just fill out the paperwork for the T..... no more no less.

Your assigner will contact your partner and discuss the situation with him...heck it is "summer ball" = teaching moment. If there is a pattern with
that guy I am sure your assigner will take the appropiate steps.....

Your assigner may interpret your e -mail to be you are a "know it all" guy and that = high maintainance.


If he had called you after he received the paperwork then maybe a discussion would have been appropiate, but otherwise if he didn't ask for your opinion don't offer it......

I think this depends on the assignor or the type of relationship you have with him or her. I mainly say this because there are assignor I would absolutely tell them this because I know the assignor rather well. Others I would never make that request. And if the assignor knows that a lot of people do not want to work with a particular official, then the assignor will keep in mind this when or if they assign the person in the future. Otherwise I totally agree the assignor could take it that way, but some assignors like more information from certain officials and for all we know Beserk might be one of those people.

Peace

That's unfortunate. If you, as an assignor, put people in "bad graces" for informing you when a partner needs retraining, people will avoid telling you things that you DO need to know to be a good assignor. You should not shut this kind of communication down. (Obviously, if someone is CONSTANTLY telling you they don't want to work with people, you have a different problem on your hands.)

It's not my job to say if another official needs retraining unless my assignor has specifically asked for me to give that type of opinion. Otherwise I'm just supplying the facts to any unusual situations that occurred and I'll leave further interpretation up to the supervisor.

I prefer to volunteer unsoliticed opinion when someone is doing an outstanding job. Just my preference.

I was attempting to be polite wrt a situation where an official is not able to do his job. Perhaps "retraining" was not the best choice of words, but I assumed you all would know what I meant in the context of this thread. My main point was that an assignor should not shut down this communication. If you, as an official, would prefer to let bad officials slide without saying anything, that's your call. But if you DO choose to report such things to your assignor, the assignor should not put you in the penalty box for it (unless you're doing it all the time.).

This is why I said it is really all predicated on the individual you are dealing with. I know I sometimes get asked about people because of who I am to those assignors or what I have done with them previously. I am also in a leadership role with my state, so that would be a different conversation. This would also be a different conversation if a multi-state final official or maybe college official. But if I was a first year guy or new to varsity, no I totally agree with others that it would probably not be the best thing. But I do agree with you that on some level you should be able to be open and honest with any assignor when needed. And if someone is causing a problem and they are not aware, then they could create further problems down the road. Then again there are certain assignors I would never comment to about my partners. You really need to know who you are dealing with in these situations.

Peace

I never said this was summer ball. This was a regular season game.

If you didn't like me for emailing you about a partner that left me hang with a coach then I would assume you do all of your referee evaluations yourself and not ask for any help. In that case you would establish the pattern yourself and would hopefully understand my frustration with this situation.

In this conference the assigner expects an email or call after any coach ejection. I sent an email to him, plus the state got their email they require. No where in my emails about the coach did I give any discription about my partner's actions.

I'm not sure how me not liking the actions of a partner would constitute me as a "know-it-all".