To Correct or Not
 

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I'm sure we'd all agree that this isn't a backcourt violation per the "three points" rule. Now if you're the trail on this play, are you going to go over to the center/slot on this play and give him information?

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...tion-kind.html

Since we played this game in March :) I already know what your answer is...go over to your partner.

I agree.

Do whats right
 

Nearly 17 minutes have passed in a 19-15 ballgame (many of my HS games have point totals larger than that near the half) & the C has an immediate "gotcha" call in his 2ndary.
If I'm the T I'd simply say, "He never established all 3 points in the f/c."
What he chooses to do with that info is up to him. Tape shows me doing my job...

If the game was in December & the IC contributes to them losing by 1 they may not get to March.
I say make it right no matter what month it is.

I meant I posted the play originally in March ;) By the way, back then you said:

Change of heart now that it's summer or was that based on some folks at the time thinking the C was calling a palm?

Well you can't honestly expect me to remember you posting the exact same thread in March! :p :D

My badd... no, I'm in the "get the play right" camp probably just a shot at the "let him live & die with his IC" folks.

Thanx!
 

I'll let those apparently directly involved contest this one, but I'm glad to have learned about that Matchup Officiating channel on YouTube. Great clips for personal study and association use. Thanx for that!

I'm just happy to remember things from last week :-)

We actually had a situation similar to this at camp this past weekend. I was the L so I wasn't involved but the C went over to the T after the T called backourt on a deflection situation and told the T the defense was the last to touch before the ball went over. T changed, we moved on and the observer was happy.

I would correct it at the T as this is my primary and I clearly would know if the player was in the FC or BC. I honestly do not know how the C in this particular case could make that call.

Peace

as t i would come and offer c the info, after that choice is his. in regards to jrut question, i think the c thought there was going to be more pressure from the defensive player when the ball handler crossed halfcourt before he started moving towards the center of the court, so the c was anticipating having to move up and officiate that play.

What? The observer didnt want the C to wait for the T to ask :D

Agreed, many times *we* try to show that we arent ball watching & miss plays high on the Cs side in transition. I think its good for the C to be fully aware of the ball & players in this situation & its okay if 4 eyes are on this play for a few seconds.
Where the C went wrong was not following the principles for calling in our 2ndary. He probably would've seen it better had he been actually trailing the play.

And Where Are My Keys ???
 

I don't remember what I had for breakfast this morning.

My comments were not about what he was thinking, he was not in position to make that call. He was going way from the division line and clearly did not see the ball as well as the T would have. It was clearly the wrong call and he was going away from the play or he did not understand the rule. It would be one thing if he was standing right on the line to see the entire play. He could not have seen the play and guessed.

Peace

You know, JRut, as I look at the C on this play I think there's a chance the latter might be true (though I hope it isn't).

He was looking right at A1 when he - the dribbler - crossed the division line. I was going to say maybe he - the C - anticipated something was about to go wrong but the whistle didn't come until a second or so after A1 entered the front court...meaning the C had a chance to think about what happened.

As one who is in the camp where I rarely correct a partner during the game, if a partner comes into my primary to make a call like this, we'll have a short "3 points" chat right away. It's one thing to let a partner officiate his primary area, it's quite another to let him officiate mine without input.

Oh, and tref was clearly using sarcasm in that last thread.

I think the observer would've run onto the court himself if the C didn't go on his own :D

Gotta say that I really don't like the C making this call even though he had a pretty good look.

It looks like he got the play right. Once the left foot comes off the floor, the right foot is clearly in the front court. It appears that both the left foot and the ball are no longer in contact with the court which means that the player has established front court status.

As soon as the ball touches the division line a violation has occurred.

Please cite "3 points rule" that is not a shot. :) I could not find it.

ART. 1
A ball which is in contact with a player or with the court is in the backcourt if either the ball or the player (either player if the ball is touching more than one) is touching the backcourt.

ART. 2
A ball which is in contact with a player or with the court is in the frontcourt if *neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt.

ART. 3
A ball which is in flight retains the same location as when it was last in contact with a player or the court.

4-4-6, also known as the "three points" rule.

"During a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, the ball is in the frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the dribbler touch the court entirely in the frontcourt."

Per this rule, there is no violation on this play.

Nah, the C blew the call.

You won't find the term "3 points rule" formally state as such in the book because it's the informal/quick way of saying that when a dribbler is dribbling the ball from the backcourt to the frontcourt, the ball is not considered to be in the frontcourt until both feet (point 1 and point 2) and the ball (point 3) touch entirely in the frontcourt.

Hmm I wonder which rule that would be? :p

If you were Lead and the C incorrectly called an out of bounds violation on the endline, what would you do?
I see this as the same as the OP.

Had a T last season call an incorrect travel, right in front of me (2 whistle), when the shooter caught his airball. We fixed it together.

Seriously?

But some things you can't fix
 

Last season, two man, made 3 pointer from top of the key. B1 flies at the shooter, very slight contact with ball long gone. A1 flops. All this right in front of me, nobody else in the picture. Lead whistles the foul from the end line.

Some things are not going to be fixed. We cannot fix every bad ruling by a partner. In this case I might have talked to the officials if I was the T in this specific play as he is clearly looking down the line. Otherwise, we would just have to live with this call. You cannot change everything. That would just be something that we would talk about at halftime or after the game. Then the assignor would have to decide if people that cannot make basic calls should be there by messing up rules.

Peace

Either that and/or the assignor would wonder why his R is acting like a U2 by not stepping up to do whats right when the opportunity presents itself.

Hey, just because your assigners expect the Us to need help doesn't mean mine does. ;)

The assignors I work for would be wanting to hire people that would not make these kinds of basic mistakes. This is not a typical "change" situation.

Peace

True

No ... the left foot, off the floor, is NOT in the front court (until it hits the ground in the front court). Ditto the ball.

Remember 4-35-3.