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-   -   Dunk That Pops Out or BI? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/92107-dunk-pops-out-bi.html)

APG Mon Jul 23, 2012 01:43pm

Dunk That Pops Out or BI?
 
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aRT1d7AnpPQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Multiple Sports Mon Jul 23, 2012 01:51pm

No basket.......

no whistle needed just keep playin......

JRutledge Mon Jul 23, 2012 01:52pm

It looks like the net kept the ball from going in. It does not look at all like BI.

Peace

Brad Mon Jul 23, 2012 03:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports (Post 849691)
No basket.......

no whistle needed just keep playin......

Done in one!

JetMetFan Mon Jul 23, 2012 07:16pm

At first glance I thought it hit A1 in the head...then I slowed it down.

Yeah, he got caught by the net monster.

One other thing I noticed: it took three seconds for the shot clock to reset. Three seconds on a dunk??? :)

brainbrian Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:54pm

Why wouldn't this basket count? The ball is all the way through the cylinder. The only rule I can really find regarding this in NFHS is 5-1-1: "A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through."

http://brianschaefer.net/temp/basket.jpg

JRutledge Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainbrian (Post 849731)
Why wouldn't this basket count? The ball is all the way through the cylinder. The only rule I can really find regarding this in NFHS is 5-1-1: "A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through."

http://brianschaefer.net/temp/basket.jpg

Well the ball did not remain in the basket and immediately popped out. So the basket cannot count just for that reason alone. Now if the ball hit his head and popped out, then that would be for other reasons. It would be BI if that is the case, but that is hard to tell by the video and how far away the camera angle is for this play.

Peace

brainbrian Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 849732)
Well the ball did not remain in the basket and immediately popped out. So the basket cannot count just for that reason alone.

But the ball did "pass through" which says is okay according the NFHS rules I found. It just doesn't really say pass through what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 849732)
Now if the ball hit his head and popped out, then that would be for other reasons. It would be BI if that is the case

How can you have basket interference after the ball has already passed through the cylinder? (I guess I'm still on the ball passing through the cylinder train of thought.) The ball would be dead at that point and the basket would count.

JRutledge Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:53am

You need to look more than one place.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brainbrian (Post 849733)
But the ball did "pass through" which says is okay according the NFHS rules I found. It just doesn't really say pass through what?

You need to read Rule 2-10-1. In order to know what Rule 5-1 you must know what is considered the basket. The basket obviously by definition involves the net. ;)

"Each basket shall consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside the diameter, its flange and braces, and a white cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring."

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainbrian (Post 849733)
How can you have basket interference after the ball has already passed through the cylinder? (I guess I'm still on the ball passing through the cylinder train of thought.) The ball would be dead at that point and the basket would count.

It would be BI because a player from either team touched a ball including within the net while the ball is on or within the basket. You need to read Rule 4-6-1. There is no distinction as to who the player must be or how they touch the ball. And the ball is only dead when a goal is made. Because of what 5-1 says, you cannot have a goal until the ball has passed through the basket according to Rule 6-7-1.

JugglingReferee Tue Jul 24, 2012 09:50am

Great awareness by these officials to "play on".

brainbrian Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 849734)
You need to read Rule 2-10-1. In order to know what Rule 5-1 you must know what is considered the basket. The basket obviously by definition involves the net. ;)

"Each basket shall consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside the diameter, its flange and braces, and a white cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring."

It would be BI because a player from either team touched a ball including within the net while the ball is on or within the basket.

Okay, I guess 2-10-1 is what I was looking for. Thanks for clarifying this for me. And since we agree now that the ball did not go all the way "through," then yes, the basket interference call makes obvious sense if it did hit him in the head.

On a related note then, how about if a shot hits an opponents head while in the basket?
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SXIaThesZD8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

APG Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainbrian (Post 849767)
Okay, I guess 2-10-1 is what I was looking for. Thanks for clarifying this for me. And since we agree now that the ball did not go all the way "through," then yes, the basket interference call makes obvious sense if it did hit him in the head.

On a related note then, how about if a shot hits an opponents head while in the basket?
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SXIaThesZD8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Per NBA rules, that's a goaltend (terminology is a little different but the rule is effectively the same as NFHS/NCAA)...NFHS/NCAA, that's basketball interference. It doesn't matter whom contacts the ball while the ball is in the basket.

JRutledge Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:56am

Well that is BI at the college and HS levels. I cannot speak exactly for the NBA as they have often little subtle differences in these areas. But it would have been BI by all other levels as BI does not distinguish how the ball is touched and prevents a player from committing a violation.

Peace

MD Longhorn Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainbrian (Post 849733)
But the ball did "pass through" which says is okay according the NFHS rules I found. It just doesn't really say pass through what?

How can you have basket interference after the ball has already passed through the cylinder? (I guess I'm still on the ball passing through the cylinder train of thought.) The ball would be dead at that point and the basket would count.

basket and rim are not the same thing.

tref Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 849778)
basket and rim are not the same thing.

But the rim is a part of the basket.


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