Swinging Elbow

APG

Using whatever rule set you work/comfortable with, what would you call? Excessive swinging of elbows violation, technical foul, no call?

PG_Ref

NFHS - excessive swing violation, since there was no contact. The official appeared to be straightlined and could not tell there was no contact.

APG

PG_Ref wrote
NFHS - excessive swing violation, since there was no contact. The official appeared to be straightlined and could not tell there was no contact.

This is a correct call under NBA rules.

Adam

I've got an elbow violation in hs rules. It's a perfect example.

I'm curious, is that a T in the NBA? It seems the official sees there's no contact but nails him for just swinging the elbows. Or is an NBA flagrant signaled with a T?

Adam

And are those fans on the court? I know the Pepsi Center had an issue with that this year.

APG

Snaqwells wrote
I've got an elbow violation in hs rules. It's a perfect example.

I'm curious, is that a T in the NBA? It seems the official sees there's no contact but nails him for just swinging the elbows. Or is an NBA flagrant signaled with a T?

In the NBA, actions like the one above are considered to be taunts...as in, "you better back off, or I'm smacking you with an elbow just like the one I threw." A flagrant foul is indicated by a fist, then pointing to the free throw line extended.

johnny d

Since there isnt any contact, this is a clear swinging elbow violation in both hs and college. i dont know anything about nba rules, so i will take apg's word for it that a t is warranted.

JetMetFan

AllPurposeGamer wrote
In the NBA, actions like the one above are considered to be taunts...as in, "you better back off, or I'm smacking you with an elbow just like the one I threw." A flagrant foul is indicated by a fist, then pointing to the free throw line extended.

The NBA also has this which could be applied as well. It's part of the list of technicals that can be called for conduct:

A deliberately-thrown elbow or any attempted physical act with no contact involved.

NFHS and NCAA it's just a violation but in NCAA the officials would most likely go to the monitor - if they had one - to check for contact.

AKOFL

I think that is the nba ref that was at our camp this year. Great guy. Scott something last name escapes me right now. A violation in HS for sure. may had ea word with the player about that as well.

JRutledge

JetMetFan wrote
The NBA also has this which cuold be applied as well. It's part of the list of technicals that can be called for conduct:

NFHS and NCAA it's just a violation but in NCAA the officials would most likeley go to the monitor - if they had one - to check for contact.

Well this once was a technical foul previously until several years ago this changed because it was felt that it was not being called enough. I think this was a good call no matter the rules. Of course it is not a T other than the NBA.

Peace

APG

AKOFL wrote
I think that is the nba ref that was at our camp this year. Great guy. Scott something last name escapes me right now. A violation in HS for sure. may had ea word with the player about that as well.

Scott Twardoski

BillyMac

JRutledge wrote
Well this once was a technical foul previously until several years ago this changed because it was felt that it was not being called enough.

I believe that excessive swinging of elbows (NFHS) has gone from a violation, to a technical foul, back to a violation? I'm sure that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will be moseying along shortly to confirm, or deny, my ancient interpretation. A reminder to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., per our merger with Twitter, posts must be 140 characters, or less.

AKOFL

AllPurposeGamer wrote
Scott Twardoski

thats it. lol thanks apg😃

JetMetFan

BillyMac wrote
I believe that excessive swinging of elbows (NFHS) has gone from a violation, to a technical foul, back to a violation? I'm sure that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will be moseying along shortly to confirm, or deny, my ancient interpretation. A reminder to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., per our merger with Twitter, posts must be 140 characters, or less.

You are correct, sir...

2002-03 NFHS Basketball Rule Changes
9-13 New Changes the penalty for excessively swinging arms or elbow(s) to a violation (from a technical foul).

PENALTY CHANGED FOR EXCESS SWINGING OF ARM(S)/ELBOW(S) (9-13 NEW): The penalty for excess swinging of the arm(s) or elbow(s) has been changed back to a violation from a technical foul. The previous rule of a technical foul (changed in 1993-94) was very seldom called, as the penalty was very severe: two shots, the ball awarded to the opponent, the player charged with one technical, which also counts toward that player’s five for disqualification and the team foul count; all without any contact on the opponent. The primary purpose of penalizing these types of movements is to reduce the potential toward rough play. The committee hopes that by changing the infraction back to an enforceable and less severe penalty (a violation), the call will be made more frequently and will achieve the desired results. If a player makes contact with an opponent while excessively swinging the arm(s)/elbow(s), the official still has several options: a player control foul, an intentional foul or a flagrant foul. The specific call should be determined by the severity of the act and player intent (based on official’s judgment).

JRutledge

BillyMac wrote
I believe that excessive swinging of elbows (NFHS) has gone from a violation, to a technical foul, back to a violation? I'm sure that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will be moseying along shortly to confirm, or deny, my ancient interpretation. A reminder to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., per our merger with Twitter, posts must be 140 characters, or less.

You are right and I did know that as well. Not many people do unless they have been around for 20 years or played during that time as well.

Peace

bainsey

While I didn't see any malice in this clip, could NFHS rules permit going to the T if you believe a non-contact elbow swipe by the ball handler was malicious?

Camron Rust

bainsey wrote
While I didn't see any malice in this clip, could NFHS rules permit going to the T if you believe a non-contact elbow swipe by the ball handler was malicious?

Yes. You could potentially consider it a punch (a fight) and go with a flagrant T.

BillyMac

JRutledge wrote
Not many people do unless they have been around for 20 years or played during that time as well.

I'm pretty sure that we may have a few young'uns on the Forum who neither officiated, nor played, under the original swinging elbow violation rule.