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stiffler3492 Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:49am

First Three Man Tonight
 
Working six games tonight, my first real experience in three man mechanics.

Any tips that I won't find in the mechanics manual?

JRutledge Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:53am

Do not forget to officiate and worry about where you are to go. You will never learn the system by simply watching. You have to still officiate the game that is in front of you.

Peace

APG Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:02pm

Don't suck. :p ;)

Adam Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 846844)
Do not forget to officiate and worry about where you are to go. You will never learn the system by simply watching. You have to still officiate the game that is in front of you.

Peace

Yep, just worry about officiating and you can make adjustments to positioning on the fly.

Rufus Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:24pm

Try and stay in your primary but, if you reach, realize it's not the end of the world (a learning experience, but not the end of the world).

REFANDUMP Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:48pm

A couple of basics that I always share with people who are inexperienced with three man mechanics. There should always be two officials ball-side when taking a ball from out of bounds. If there isn't, someone is in the wrong position.

Secondly, when there's a whistle and possible switch, everyone should "freeze" for a second so you can think about where you're supposed to switch to. If you don't, you may find yourself running around aimlessly not being sure who you're to switch with.

Have fun, learn, and enjoy doing three man. You'll get spoiled !!!

JetMetFan Thu Jun 21, 2012 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 846841)
Working six games tonight, my first real experience in three man mechanics.

Any tips that I won't find in the mechanics manual?

Try to have as good a game as you can in your primary and don't get caught up trying to reach to help your partners. If you're working with officials who are experienced with 3-person they'll be able to clean up anything that happens away from you.

Good luck!

REFANDUMP Thu Jun 21, 2012 01:09pm

If you're going to make a mistake, it's probably going to be this one. Remember that the "C" has the play all the way to the basket if the play starts from that side of the floor. The common mistake (and one that I still make too often) is to be the lead and not give the "C" first shot at a potential call at the basket.

JRutledge Thu Jun 21, 2012 01:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 846869)
If you're working with officials who are experienced with 3-person they'll be able to clean up anything that happens away from you.

In a summer season, camp situation, I would not call anything is in my partner's area. They have to learn that they have to get their plays and I would let them do it. Of course dual areas or in the lane it is about angles and what you see, but no way would I call something in my partner's area that was basketball related. ;)

Peace

JetMetFan Thu Jun 21, 2012 01:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 846874)
In a summer season, camp situation, I would not call anything is in my partner's area. They have to learn that they have to get their plays and I would let them do it. Of course dual areas or in the lane it is about angles and what you see, but no way would I call something in my partner's area that was basketball related. ;)

Peace

Yeah, but being new to it means nerves...which means looking where you shouldn't...which means a whistle where it shouldn't be every now and then. I remember those days. It wasn't pretty :D

Andy Thu Jun 21, 2012 01:37pm

As has been said, don't concentrate so much on the mechanics and rotations of the 3 ref system that you forget to officiate the game....

Camron Rust Thu Jun 21, 2012 01:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP (Post 846871)
If you're going to make a mistake, it's probably going to be this one. Remember that the "C" has the play all the way to the basket if the play starts from that side of the floor. The common mistake (and one that I still make too often) is to be the lead and not give the "C" first shot at a potential call at the basket.

But only for defenders that come in with the play. The lead has all plays for defenders that come from the lead's primary to help.

REFANDUMP Thu Jun 21, 2012 02:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 846890)
But only for defenders that come in with the play. The lead has all plays for defenders that come from the lead's primary to help.

Good catch. Thanks.

Bad Zebra Thu Jun 21, 2012 02:55pm

Remember you're probably the ONLY person in the gym who knows it's your first time. Summer ball is a great low impact environment to learn. Don't sweat it.

And...breathe.

DRJ1960 Thu Jun 21, 2012 03:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 846841)
Working six games tonight, my first real experience in three man mechanics.

Any tips that I won't find in the mechanics manual?


Don't be shy. I passed on WAY too much from the C early on.

stiffler3492 Thu Jun 21, 2012 03:44pm

Thanks guys. We're being observed by a pretty darn good official in his own right. Looking forward to hearing what he has to say.

Raymond Thu Jun 21, 2012 04:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 846907)
Thanks guys. We're being observed by a pretty darn good official in his own right. Looking forward to hearing what he has to say.

JRut?

BillyMac Thu Jun 21, 2012 05:40pm

Who's On First ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP (Post 846866)
When there's a whistle and possible switch, everyone should "freeze" for a second so you can think about where you're supposed to switch to. If you don't, you may find yourself running around aimlessly not being sure who you're to switch with.

Connecticut is the "Land That Time Forgot". Many of our best officials don't get in a three person game until the quarterfinals of the state tournament. In a quarterfinal game, I observed one of our best officials move in a complete circle, from trail, to lead, back to trail, with his circular path covering the entire front court, while one of his partners was reporting a foul to the table.

BillyMac Thu Jun 21, 2012 05:45pm

It's Always Sunny In Connecticut ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 846903)
Summer ball ... Don't sweat it.

It was 97 degrees F here yesterday, and it hit 97 degrees F again today. Both record highs for the dates. No sweat? You've got to be kidding me.

Freddy Thu Jun 21, 2012 06:05pm

More Specifically . . .
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus (Post 846854)
Try and stay in your primary but, if you reach, realize it's not the end of the world (a learning experience, but not the end of the world).

It's not just a matter of "stay in your primary". To far too many what that means is: "If the ball is in your primary, I'm not going to call the foul or violation that I see there because, after all, that's not in my primary." In the meantime, competitive matchups in one's primary aren't under surveillance.

More precisely, pregame it like this with an actual diagram of three-man Primary Areas of Coverage visible to everyone on your crew: "Okay, here are our primary areas of coverage. Let's make sure each of us knows when the other is going to turn 'off-ball'." That's the primary emphasis of the three-man system. And clarify it how each will communicate that s/he has turned off-ball (some use a hand to the chest when going on-ball, we acknowledge going off-ball by turning our shoulders away from the ball; other methods are also popular).

Off-ball coverage, providing surveillance over the competitive matchups in your PCA -- what it's all about. Not simply not calling something seen in another's PCA because it's not in your PCA while that's where your attention has been while ignoring what's going on in your PCA.

Make sense?

grunewar Thu Jun 21, 2012 06:09pm

Rusty in VA.......
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 846918)
It was 97 degrees F here yesterday, and it hit 97 degrees F again today. Both record high for the dates. No sweat? You've got to be kidding me.

I had 3 x BV Summer league games last night....I sweated my a$$ off. Wow!

JRutledge Fri Jun 22, 2012 01:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 846908)
JRut?

I was somewhere else tonight. I have camps or games every night in June damn near. I should go to bed because I will be working a camp (and working some games) all day tomorrow. Gotta love summer time.

Peace

Bad Zebra Fri Jun 22, 2012 08:21am

Follow up from OP?
 
So...how did it go? Any memorable events? Lessons learned? First impression of 3 man? (BTW...How's your mom?)


Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 846918)
It was 97 degrees F here yesterday, and it hit 97 degrees F again today. Both record highs for the dates. No sweat? You've got to be kidding me.

Billy, you should move to Florida...those Connecticut summers are brutal. I can remember as a kid it would get so hot, I'd actually swim in the Connecticut River...it was pretty gross back then.

stiffler3492 Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:05am

It went very well overall. I wish I had more time right now, but I'll be back after work to post a more comprehensive recap.

Rufus Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 846920)
Make sense?

Yes, and I agree. Was trying to keep it simple, though, in the advice given (i.e., start by thinking about primary first, then once comfortable graduate to what you describe). I think what you described is great and appropriate, just a bit much to process for a first time on the court calling 3-man. YMMV.

BillyMac Fri Jun 22, 2012 06:07pm

Not Anymore ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra (Post 846964)
Those Connecticut summers are brutal. I can remember as a kid it would get so hot, I'd actually swim in the Connecticut River, it was pretty gross back then.

Thanks to the Clean Water Act of 1977:

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbn...87f93e1ca6abac

BillyMac Fri Jun 22, 2012 06:13pm

Just Realized It, Not A Great Title ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 846841)
First Three Man Tonight.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

stiffler3492 Fri Jun 22, 2012 08:40pm

Was a good night overall. Got caught reaching a few times, but there was one time that I reached where the observer said it was OK, especially since it was the right call.

It took some getting used to for sure. I got caught several times running from C to L after a free throw, like I would do in two man. Rotated late several times as the L, and was forced to make a call while rotating.

My partner (L) and I (C) had a double whistle on a block charge that we handled well, got some kudos from the observer for that.

A couple of questions...

1. Should the L ever have a five second closely guarded count?

2. If the ball is in the corner, strong side near the end line, how many sets of eyes should be on the ball?

3. How quickly do you rotate, and what's your key? Ball or post players?

Adam Fri Jun 22, 2012 08:59pm

1. Yes, but check local listings.

2. Two, at most. But the T has off ball responsibility, too.

3. I'm working on this. Two keys I am using are when the ball drops below the ft line, or when the player with the ball high on the week side starts dribbling.

Rufus Sat Jun 23, 2012 08:06pm

1. Yes, they can, but rarely do since there is usually a move to the basket or a kick out rather than an extended possession. Never a bad idea to get a count started though.
2. Depends. Fed mechanics leaves this to T. Here in GA they want L to turn out and accept the play with T focusing on the paint. Check how they want you to do it in your association.
3. You'll get different answers here, but I base it on competitive match ups and what defense they're playing (zone I'm not in as big a hurry, man to man maybe more quick). The big thing is to close down when the ball moves to the weak side and be ready to rotate.

JetMetFan Sun Jun 24, 2012 06:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 847062)
A couple of questions...

1. Should the L ever have a five second closely guarded count?

2. If the ball is in the corner, strong side near the end line, how many sets of eyes should be on the ball?

3. How quickly do you rotate, and what's your key? Ball or post players?

1. Sure, why not? You may start counting late because you're more concerned about contact since the action is close to the hoop.

2. NFHS if it's outside the arc it's hard as the L not to look since it's so close to you. As the L you have to at least be aware of what's going on since endline OOB calls are yours.

3. Ball. When the ball settles away from you at the FT line extended or below, you go. You should be mirroring the movement of the ball from your A-B-C positions (check the manual). As you go keep officiating the area you're leaving until you get to the other side of the lane. You try not to go if there's a shot or a drive to the hoop imminent. If you see that happening and you're already on the move but you haven't reached "C," just stop and go back.


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