Target
 

IDK what it is lately, but I got another ball fired at me last night.
Different league, different city... better pay!

So Team A is losing by a half dozen & we reach that point in the game where they are fouling to stop the clock & the other team is knocking down FTs, its over.

A1 fouls B1 at midcourt, the ball rolls OOB on the far sideline as the T reports. Im L going to administer the bonus. A5 goes to retrieve the ball & FIRES a laser from the 28' line while still OOB. The ball skims off of his teammates head continues toward me but bounces just short of me. I catch it off the hop, allow A5 to take a spot on the lane line & walk directly up to him & say, "just so we're on the same page, you werent throwing the ball AT ME, were you?!?!"
He says "no" but wouldnt look me in the eye.
I say, "good... you need to be careful because you hit your own teammate."
He says, "Well call a better game."
WHACK goodnight!

Some of you may remember the player in the womens league actually hitting me in the head with the ball a few weeks ago. Now this, its becoming too common & it seems like its always the less skilled player on the team. You know, the player that initiates contact on a verticle defender (that happens to be a foot and a half taller) then throws up some garbage & says "call something man!"
Wondering should I start hitting the weights, maybe I look suspect out there or perhaps me being 5'10" the player being 5'7" & my partner being 6'6" was what made me the mark :mad:
At least I didnt turn my back on the players this time & saw it coming :D

Maybe it's that bulls eye on the back of your striped shirt... :)

I probably wouldn't have engaged the player directly in the latest scenario. An "everyone, let's keep playing ball" to the group when you were administering the FT might've been enough to calm things down. Saying something directly to him just gives him the chance to say something dumb, which he did.

Perhaps... or it could be a HTBT type of unsporting act.

Allow me to clarify, dead ball, players walking to the FT area & he fires a baseball pass from the 28" to me directly under the basket. That was too egregious to be subtle about it, for me anyway. I couldn't let it ride & I feel like I gave him an out by wording it the way I did. He chose not to be a man about it... or should I say, not to be smart about it.

As a matter of fact, it was so over the top that his teammates even looked at him like uh-oh. Before I ran him my partner told the table it wouldnt end good as he had a great look at the unsporting act as well.

I think it was a no-brainer as nobody said a word about the ejection... not even the player. He didnt say another word just got his stuff & exit stage left. It felt like the music stopped playing & all eyes were on him like in those westerns when the villian walks in the bar.
The only thing that was questioned on that play was why they shot 3 FTs & got the ball back :D

I'm most definitely addressing the player directly in this scenario. And if he decides to respond, especially with something stupid, then that's on him.

Why not just send him without the discussion? Game was over, and this guy is obviously not needed anymore. He acted stupid, no need for him to explain, just toss him.

Well, it wasnt quite clear if he was frustrated with himself/team or me. Like when a player drops the f bomb after missing a layup. Was that to me for the no call or to himself for missing?
Nothing like tossing a player & them saying "hey I'm sorry but I wasnt throwing the ball at you, I was just releasing some frustration."
I just like to clarify before running a player on questionable acts.
His answer turned a questionable into a no-brainer.

+1

I don't really care what his intention was, you can't fire the ball in this situation. The game is over, the stupid act was firing the ball, then followed by another stupid act of answering the way he did.

If he says, "hey, I'm sorry but I wasn't throwing the ball at you, I was just releasing some frustration." "Perhaps you won't be so frustrated next week."

Hahahaha nice! We all have our own interpretation of what crossing the line means to us.

My thought process for the one way discussion was:

1. I havent had any conflict with him in the past 39 minutes.
2. I had never officiated him before (give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves undeserving)
3. Uncertantiy on what he was trying to accomplish.
a. If the ball didnt slow down by skimming his teammates head,
his unsporting act would've been much more clear.

You're correct, we all have our own threshold for what constitutes a T or an ejection.

But I know this much, I don't care if you are frustrated at yourself, your teammates, the other team, the referee's, you cannot act like a jerk. Firing a ball is acting like a jerk and it gets you sent home.

But I'm glad you handled business when your threshold was crossed. Mine would have been just a little sooner.

Maybe I'm not picturing things right, but I'm not seeing any more than a possible T for what the kid said, not an ejection. You started a conversation that probably should have ended when the kid said "no" to your first question, but you kept it going, I'm sure not in the friendliest of tones. If I egg a kid into a conversation and he ends up saying something dumb, I'm feeling like I may need to eat some of the responsibility. Maybe the coach should have been the one you had a conversation with and let him handle it - or not. Just looking at it from a different angle.

I think, from tref's previous situation, this was an adult rec game.

I guess that could change things about talking to a coach for sure, but one of the reasons I don't work adult leagues is because of how those idiots behave. However, even if these were adults, I still don't see tossing a guy for that particular remark when I started the conversation that led him to say it. It wasn't threatening and it wasn't loud. Just a T from me. If the ball bounced before it got to me, it wasn't thrown that hard and directly at me. Tref made his point when he asked the first question and he got an answer. The rest of the conversation wasn't needed and I just don't think the response was ejection-worthy. But I wasn't there, so it's easy for me to say.

I also wonder what's going on if you get the ball thrown at you so many times in different games. I have to wonder why this is happening to this guy. Something seems fishy about that.

I've worked exactly 5 adult games this year, none of them in the Denver area, so I don't know how common this is up there.

I will say, however, that from his description, the only reason the ball bounced before it got to him was because A5 had poor aim (or A1 walked into the path) and A1's head slowed it down. I'm with Toren, I'd be more inclined to go straight to the toss than I would to end up with a standard T. I liked tref's approach here, but I wouldn't hold any variation against someone who responded differently.

Okay. Since you clarified the situation that's different. If it was an adult league game that's really different...I'd be more inclined to take Toren's strategy and just toss him. Not worth the aggravation, especially at the end of the game.

So what - even that warrants a T at the VERY least. Besides - if a player chooses to take out his anger in some manner, he's responsible for whatever happens due to his actions, even if unintentional.

I agree ... you're not picturing things right. ") The conversation might not be ejectable on it's own - it's the actions beforehand that warranted the ejection. And while I disagree with TR trying to determine the intent of the players (I think it was ejectable regardless of intent) - the fact that he DID determine the intent, and that intent confirms that the ball-throwing was ejectable completely justifies the tossing.

Everybody has their own take, I needed validation to hand out the proper discipline. Could I have stopped at no? Yes. But I didnt because I wanted it to be clear that we weren't having anymore of THAT from him, his teammates or opponents. When he said call a better game, he basically said yeah I did throw it at you. And I felt I had the green light.

IKR!! But seeing how my phone rings weekly to be given assignments as opposed to requesting them & the fact that I'm still working 4-6 nights a week, every week of the year... the people that matter most to my career obviously appreciate what I bring to the table ;)

Well send some games to us that are only working 2-3 times a week :cool:

Stop playin, you're on the same call lists as myself... :D

Hey Tref ...
 

You've got to stop wearing shirts that look like these:

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbn...220d9df7a140f4

http://vinteeage.com/product-images/...mer-cash-1.jpg

Or perhaps you're not interested in anyone else's opinion.

Yes, your phone is ringing off the hook...and look at that type of games you're getting.

Perhaps your phone is ringing off the hook because no one else will work these games.

And you know this because you were there? :rolleyes:

I read the OP over again and the ball bounced after "skimming" by one of his teammate's head. I don't see how this can be having the ball thrown at you "like a laser" when it bounces before it gets to you. Based on tref's history with other situations that were actually worse, I just wonder more whether he is carrying his cockiness that he displays here into his games a bit too much. Maybe not - I don't know, but it sure seems odd that so many players are willing to vent their frustration so blatantly directly at him.

...or as somebody may have alluded to...it may be the types of players in the types of games he is working.

Indeed. Which is why I won't work adult rec. Not worth the $20.

I listened to his opinion, I heard it & I as well as others on this thread didnt agree that this situation required a group talk. I hope that is okay with you...

Perhaps, but it rings as much from Nov-March as it does now, so...

No he wasnt wasnt there, but he has good reading comprehension skills.
The only thing that slowed down the ball & made it change directions was the mohawk of his teammate.

Who knows... this time of year I'm usually paired up with wreck refs & I notice that they want to be liked more than respected. They lean toward the safe call while I hand out Ts like they're skittles.

So because he agrees with you, he has better reading comprehension skills than I do. Classic. This is the level of debate I'm dealing with. If you're going to get your feelings hurt when someone dares to speak against your arrogant style of handing out T's like they're Skittles, then there's really no point in posting the nonsense in the first place. If all you want is for people to agree with you, this is not the place for that.

Smitty, why you wanna be like that? You asked if he was there... I said no, he obviously read the post as it was written. Many times we put our own spin on the facts, he just used the facts given & came to the correct conclusion. That's it, no more, no less. Sorry if YOUR feelings got hurt. You read well too... when you want to :D

Agree or disagree with me, it matters not. I dont care what some guys on a message board that I have never met & havent seen me work, think of me.

The handing out Ts like skittles comment was made by a commentator on a game I worked.

Taste the rainbow? :cool:

Then why keep posting these situations?

Seriously. If you really don't care what any of us on this board think, why keep coming here?:confused:

See, there it is. Why must you guys spin my words? Add & subtract from my statements :confused:
What "I" said was:

I definitely care what my peers think about my situations!! I only care what God, my wife & child think of ME personally. Comprende?

To answer your question, I keep coming here because I utilize any & every outlet to gain more knowledge, wisdom & understanding of our craft.

Laser?
 

I also do not understand how someone can throw a "laser" from the 28' mark, "skim" off a head and not reach you in flight. Was it a laser? Did it do more than Skim?

Assuming I'm picturing this wrong, giving your description that there was no doubt what happened, I have no problem with you confronting the player.

If it was not a "laser" meaning there could be doubt if his actions were meant to show you up or injure you; then I think part of your conversation was antagonistic. "You need to be more careful..". You got your point across with the first question, I do not like the "you need" part.

If the rec league has a bunch of "idiots", then I would not give it much thought. However, if you are the "only" official that this happens to, I would give it a 10min thought asking yourself why?

He was at the 28' line, but also way OOB on the sideline, the teammate that got skimmed was on the court in between the arc & FT line extended. That is when the ball slowed down & changed direction, which explains the bounce before it got to me. So yes, it was a laser.

Actually out of my 10 years of experience, this is only the 2nd time a ball has been thrown at me. It just so happens that they both occured as of late. One was in a womens game & the other in a mens game, at two different locations.

Never been assaulted in a sanctioned game at any level.

And yet when you post situations like these - ones that are not rules based - the discussion will inevitably turn to a "what could you have done differently" or "what did you do to make it worse" type of thing. And then you throw out comments like the ones you have made in this thread...seems kind of silly to ask for validation and then tell those who don't validate you that you don't care what they think of you.

Comprende vous??:rolleyes:

Like. :)

You got it
 

I used to love her because I could get different perspectives from officials all over the world. Seeing how I only like the Forum now, your wish is my command. I'll read more, post less (way less) & share my situations with friends.

pardon my ignorance, and i'm late to the thread, but is it a league where one technical is an automatic ejection? reading the thread i haven't been able to figure out whether he was ejected because of the number of technicals or the unsporting act.

/thank you

4-19-4
 

I went with a flagrant technical for dead ball non-contact which displayed unacceptable conduct.

Thanks...that's what i thought. It's onlyl happened to me once, by a coach, in my very first game. (non-conference jr. high boys) He fired the ball at me from 20 feet away..I caught it easily, but i'm sure i had that "deer in the headlights" look, from being so surprised. I didn't do anything, just played on. Wish I had that one back.

I've learned that the negative situations we wish we had back, makes us golden when the opportunity arises the next time because we have the experience to deal with it in a professional manner.

Tough to deal with something that we've never experienced before.
Not that we want to be fired on again, but you know what I mean :D

Great. Since you don't care, and therefore shouldn't be offended, here's what I think.

Every time you post one these situations, others point out how you might could have have something different. It's how many others of us here LEARN. You have chosen not to, seeming to only want to brag about how you whacked or tossed somebody. You either get the validation you're looking for or if someone disagrees with you, then they can't comprehend what they're reading or you don't care what they think. You've got a great attitude.

Not that you care what I think.

BTW, that guy must have had one helluva a mohawk for his hair to prevent you from being killed!

Didn't Know He Played Basketball ...
 

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbn...7543600a665b6f

(This is no challenge since bob jenkins took a sabbatical. I really do miss him. Seriously)