Well, we've had an ongoing discussion about whether or not an official should inform a coach when that coach has used his/her last time out.

So, while I was at camp this weekend, I managed to ask every single observer about it. (I didn't ask them as a group. I sought them out one-by-one.) I simply asked if the official should inform the coach, or stay away (so as to avoid any unpleasantness) and let the coach's assistants inform him.

Hank Nichols (coordinator of NCAA officials), Bob D'Amato (I'm sure I spelled it wrong, but he works the ACC and Big East, among others), Marty Shapiro, Don Shea (NBA and SEC), Tom Lopes (2003 Final Four official), and Jeff Nichols all said that you tell the coach, or at least tell an assistant. They said that there's simply no good reason not to, and it prevents a coach from trying to blame you later if he takes an excessive TO.

The dissenter of the group was Edgar Cartotto. He said the official should "NEVER" go to the team's huddle. His reason was not to avoid trouble, however. He was more concerned that it makes the official look like he's trying to shmooze with the coach.

I just thought I'd share the views of several D1 officials, as well as a couple assignors (not to mention the coordinator of NCAA officials). Obviously, this does not close any debate about the subject, b/c even the observers weren't unanimous. However, I think it's helpful to know how some of the best in the country feel about it.

It's in the NFHS rules to do so. Why wouldn't you?

My 2 Cents!
 

If you tell the one Coach its the last, I think you should tell the other Coach how many s/he has remaining, if any.

Re: My 2 Cents!
 

Uh-uh.

Re: Re: My 2 Cents!
 

Whats up Mark?

Re: Re: Re: My 2 Cents!
 

Not a rule, Woodee.

If you tell the other coach that he has two time-outs, then the guy that just ran out will wonder why you didn't tell him when he had two time-outs left.

mick

Thanks, Chuck.
Good post.
How'd it go?
mick

Re: Re: Re: Re: My 2 Cents!
 

I find i tell both coaches how many time outs they have left-late in the game--either the coach or assistant--i think in the long run they appreciate it

Letting a coach know how many TO they have left to REQUEST is a situational thing for me. It all depends on a few factors, the first being, did the table tell me how many are left? If the table didn't tell me I am not going to ask because I have enough to worry about in an 84'x50' box. Secondly, what has been the coach’s attitude throughout the game? Most important though, just like it is the assistant coaches responsibility to make sure the official knows what type of TO was requested it also their responsibility to inform their head coach of how many TO they have left, after all, he is just sitting there on his a** doing much of nothing anyway.

Edgar is correct. I have heard him say many times do not go sticking your nose into a team's huddle. Both NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's rules state that a game official is to notify the coach when his/her team has used its last timeout.

I was told at a camp once to "only tell a coach when he/she is out of time outs"...if you tell the coach there is one TO left, and then come to find out the scorer screwed up when he/she informed you of time outs remaining, and the team is really OUT of timeouts, you'll have one pi$$ed coach

Mark, I'm not clear on what you're getting at. Are you saying that you shouldn't tell the coach s/he's out of TO's even tho the rules say that you should?

Or are you merely saying that, like me, you've heard Edgar state his position?

I can understand staying away from the bench area most of the time, but it has been my experience that coaches always say "thank you" and appreciate it when you inform them that they are out of time-outs. Rather than cause a problem, it improves things. Just don't interrupt a huddle...catch them when they are breaking up.

Z

I am going blind in one eye and cannot see out of the other one. I misread the original posting by Chuck. I have heard Edgar on many occasions that you do not want to go into a team's unless it is absolutely necessary. Informing a team that is has used its last timeout is required by rule. But an official must pick the right moment when to notify the coach and going into a huddle is not the best time to do it.

It has happen to me, just like that.
 

I have had that happen to me. It was not a pretty situation. Table personnel screw up from time to time, so you have to be careful on what information you are telling them.

Peace

So because you had a scorer screw up once, you'll never follow the rule to notify the coach again? Yeah, that makes sense. :-) You have said before that in your games, the scorer usually notifies the coach directly.... I don't see how if the situation is any better if the coach is pissed off at the scorer than at you... in fact, it's probably worse. If a referee is afraid to go near the bench to notify a coach that they are out of time-outs, as required by rule, there must already be a problem between the coach and the ref. Don't blame poor game management on a rule that you choose to ignore or call everyone who can manage the situation smoothly a "rulebook referee." That's cowardly.

Z

You cannot even decide how this should be handled.
 

No, but if you want to believe that, go right ahead. Actually the philosophy that I have about this, has nothing or very little to do with that particular game. Part of it is that there is a faction of officials that believe that coaches know and scorers for their teams can tell them, and they do.

Well because in my area, or around the state in the games I have officiated, the coaches rely heavily on "their scorers" for information. Whether it is timeouts, foul sitautions or who has the number of fouls. Maybe that is not the case where you live, but coaches are always talking to the table, when they have a question asking "their scorekeeper" for that kind of information. But I guess you feel like I should do their job for them?

I know this, when they changed the timeout situation from so many twenty timeouts to so many full timeouts, it has been very common place to have the coach tell me him or herself what their situation is. When you ask a coach "what kind of timeout do you want," and he says, "I only have a 30." I guess I should go back and tell him again what he already knows.


At the end of the day, <b>this is a philosophy.</b> Just like I have in every single sport I officiate, there are rules and there are philosophies. You could never be a football official, because the rules do not make a distiction at the NCAA or NF what is a hold and how to call one. But there is a book out telling you how to call that and many other things, regardless of what the rulebook states. And it is not unusual to find the philosophy of holding to be called based on where the point of attack is, a very widely held philosophy in football alone.

Just because the rule says one thing, does not mean that everyone (and they do not) apply the rules the exact same way. Outside of folks like yourself on this board, <b>not a single official I have ever come in contact with makes an issue out of this at all.</b> Only folks that have nothing else better to do and probably cannot call a simple foul correctly, but you worry about things like this. Folks here keep saying "it is a rule," so what!!! It is a rule that has no consequence, I have never been told by an assignor if I did not tell a coach how many timeouts they have, I will not work in their conference. I have never been told that if I do not follow this to the letter, you will not work in their conference. You cannot even decide if the Referee tell the coach or any official tells the coach. Whether to go into the huddle or whether to wait until after the huddle breaks. The main advocates of this rule cannot even decide how it is to be handled, but I am suppose to go along with your ideals (which I will not) and apply this rule, when there are absolutely no consequences for this not being done. And if the coach is too stupid to know how many timeouts he called, too bad. This happen this weekend at a camp and not one evaluator got on the officials for the coach not knowing the situation. And in their words, "you have better things to worry about."

I will digress.

Peace

Jrut
Whoa! I would reply but I got lost in the middle somewhere. I guess you don't tell coaches, but it isn't clear why other than the simple reason that rules can be ignored if nobody told you to follow them. I understand not calling the bizarre, calling a game the way it is done in your region, etc. But this rule seems an odd one to exclude. You are right that coaches should know, and most do, but it seems a strange place to take a strong stand.

It is a rule, and, as I read the initial post, all of the guys at the camp got it right. Most said tell the coach or an assistant, none appear (from what was written) to have stated go into the huddle to give that notification, and one said don't go into the huddle. All of that is valid.

We coaches have a brief time in a TO to focus and send a specific message to our team. DO NOT interrupt that conversation to tell us we are out of timeouts. You can easily inform us when we are done with the TO or tell an assistant (who, as a team representative, can then decide whether or not to interrupt the TO with this info). I know the rule says head coach, but if I would allow any discretion, it would be to tell a member of the coaching staff and not limit it to the head coach.

Well......
 

This is not about exclusion, it is about importance. If a coach cannot count, than that is just too bad. If you are relying on me to tell you something I am not personally keeping track of, then you probably should not be coaching. This is not football where we are the main people that keep track of this. In football, the officials are the "official book" if you will. At that stage of the game, I am usually talking about things that affect us on the floor. Who has the last second shot? What kind of shot that team might take? If we have a double whistle, what are we doing? How much time is on the clock? Can they team take a shot or just tip the ball? Are we going to rotate to get good coverage, or are we going to lock down? I might even say, call the first foul, Team B wants to lengthen the game. Depending on if the timeout is a 30 or 60, that might not be a very long conversation. I have better things to do.

Well at the camp I was at this past weekend, they told us to not going looking for that information. If the scorer calls you over and tells you, nothing wrong with that. But if no one says anything, you do not worry about it. And that is the application I adhere to. And that has always worked for me and the partners I work with on a regular basis.


What if we tell the assistant, are you going to get mad at us if he does not tell you? I really do not expect you to answer that, but if the rule is so important, then we have to tell the person the rules state is important, right? BTW, it does not say "head" coach, just coach. But then again in my years of doing varsity and college ball, this never becomes an issue. Especially when the coaches already know this information through their own scorekeepers. Maybe if I was doing a lot of Freshman ball and the table personnel was a teenager, this might be a bigger factor. But because adults are the ones that I see, this is never a factor. Just like the scorer can tell a coach how many fouls his star has, they usually tell them how many timeouts and what kind of timeouts they have.

Peace

Tables make errors. I call my 4th TO, the table has it as 5. You aren't checking, don't tell me. I call my 5th TO, table says I have no TOs, BANG. Wouldn't you rather have had this discussion and sort this out before you have T'd me up than after?

If you tell me that I have none and I think we have 1, we can discuss it a lot better than after you have given us a T for using one the table says we didn't have.

Your scorer should be having this discussion with the table, not the officials. You have a scorer for a reason, to keep track of the game, if they aren't doing that kick them off the team and take their letter away, they don't deserve it.

Re: Well......
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

This is not about exclusion, it is about importance. If a coach cannot count, than that is just too bad.

Coaches shouldn't ref and refs shouldn't coach. Who are you to decide what is important and what is "too bad?" No wonder you are always worried about getting near the bench area with an attitude like that. Not only can't you follow the rule, now it's the coaches fault. More great comic material you provide to the forum.

If you are relying on me to tell you something I am not personally keeping track of, then you probably should not be coaching.

There you go again. Sounds like instead of the coach not coaching, perhaps you shouldn't be officiating.

At that stage of the game, I am usually talking about things that affect us on the floor. Who has the last second shot? What kind of shot that team might take? If we have a double whistle, what are we doing? How much time is on the clock? Can they team take a shot or just tip the ball? Are we going to rotate to get good coverage, or are we going to lock down?

And who gets possession if we have a held ball and HOW MANY FREAKIN' TIME-OUTS DOES EACH TEAM HAVE? Pretty simple stuff for most officials.

I might even say, call the first foul, Team B wants to lengthen the game. Depending on if the timeout is a 30 or 60, that might not be a very long conversation. I have better things to do.

Like telling the coaches what is and isn't important? Rut's rules now extend to coaches as well....like a bad virus :-)

Z

Your scorer should be having this discussion with the table, not the officials. You have a scorer for a reason, to keep track of the game, if they aren't doing that kick them off the team and take their letter away, they don't deserve it. [/B][/QUOTE]Just for the record,w_sohl,if the scorer DOES tell you that a team has just taken it's last timeout,do you inform the team of that fact?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Just for the record,w_sohl,if the scorer DOES tell you that a team has just taken it's last timeout,do you inform the team of that fact?

Like my first post in this discussion said.....


Letting a coach know how many TO they have left to REQUEST is a situational thing for me. It all depends on a few factors, the first being, did the table tell me how many are left? If the table didn't tell me I am not going to ask because I have enough to worry about in an 84'x50' box. Secondly, what has been the coach’s attitude throughout the game? Most important though, just like it is the assistant coaches responsibility to make sure the official knows what type of TO was requested it also their responsibility to inform their head coach of how many TO they have left, after all, he is just sitting there on his a** doing much of nothing anyway.

JR,
(<I>...Drifting a might.</I>)
Late in the game I check, or have an umpire check, on remaining time-outs. I do not rely on any scorer to follow procedure.
I think it's more important that the coach knows he is out of time-outs, than whether the scorer, or the crew, was the first to check on the number of time-outs that are available.
mick

[QUOTE]Originally posted by w_sohl

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee Quote: Just for the record,w_sohl,if the scorer DOES tell you that a team has just taken it's last timeout,do you inform the team of that fact? Like my first post in this discussion said..... Letting a coach know how many TO they have left to REQUEST is a situational thing for me. It all depends on a few factors, the first being, did the table tell me how many are left? If the table didn't tell me I am not going to ask because I have enough to worry about in an 84'x50' box. Secondly, what has been the coach’s attitude throughout the game? Most important though, just like it is the assistant coaches responsibility to make sure the official knows what type of TO was requested it also their responsibility to inform their head coach of how many TO they have left, after all, he is just sitting there on his a** doing much of nothing anyway.

That didn't answer the specific question above at all.I'll try again.

If the official scorer informs you that team A has just taken it's LAST legally allotted timeout,do you then inform Team A of that fact?

Just wondering.

Amen to that Mick.

Z

You cannot keep track?
 

You prove my exact point, "Tables make errors." No matter what I tell you, it is going to be based on what they tell me. If they are wrong, and you expect me to pass along that information, I am going to pass on incorrect information. So this is why it is ultimately your responsiblity to know what you call. I am only a messenger at best, not the keeper of the information. And if you run out, I am going to give a T regardless of how you you found out. And at the end of the day, I am only going to listen what the scorer told me, not what you think might have happen. I am not keeping a running total in my pocket. Sorry, I have much more important things to do.

And I will handle this just like any other situation. If yo think your star has 4 fouls and the table says five, we are going with the table. If you do not want that to happen, put someone at the table or pay close attention, so this never happens without you checking. Again, ultimately not my concern. It is funny how coaches can tell me what a rule is, how bad the call I just made, but you do not know how many timeouts you called?

Peace

Re: Re: Well......
 

I will remember your "follow the rules" montra, when you T a coach that has one foot out of the coaching box and he is talking to his team. I expect you give a T to that coach, because the rules says so. But then again, you have no common sense, so what else is new?

Maybe I should not, just because you said it. I will remember next time, to not invest in a company because you think it is a bad investment. Should I also ask you about my marriage plans. My vacation plans or what should I be doing over the weekend? You know how important your opinion is to me, you tell me?

Who gets possession of the ball does not rest only in the hands of the table by the way. If I know I gave it to white the last time, I am not going to give it to them again. But that is something I can keep track of much easier, than a possible 10 timeouts. Officials can usually remember who the tip when to, as a matter of fact, we might know who had possession and the table just points the way the ball ultimately went. But timeouts, when working a 3 man, I might personally have not called one timeout the entire game. So I at the very least understand I do not have any good knowledge of this situation. That is why the table has a pencil or a pen in their possession. When Honigs starts selling "Basketball information packages" I will do what you suggest.


I just had the conversation and a situation happen at a camp that I attended this week. The head clincian told us not to worry about this, so I guess it would be hard to say it is "Rut's Rules" when it is taught in a camp that I had to pay money to attend. If it is not a major concern for the Head Clinician of the State of Illinois, it really is not a concern for me. ;) And last time I checked, his resume was much more extensive than the one you or I own.

Peace

<i>Rut's wisdom: "I will remember your "follow the rules" montra, when you T a coach that has one foot out of the coaching box and he is talking to his team. I expect you give a T to that coach, because the rules says so. But then again, you have no common sense, so what else is new?"</i>

Apparently the difference in reasoning between you and I is that I am able to distinguish a difference between the two things and I also have the reasoning power to understand the difference between following the rule about notifying coaches when they are out of time-outs and not calling every "by the book" 3-in-the-key. You see, calling 3-seconds when there is no advantage does not make the game better. It serves no purpose. Neither does calling a T when a coach is barely out of his/her box. Notifying a coach that they are out of time-outs serves a purpose and it also is a courtesy and helps establish a positive relationship between coach and official.

What started this thread was that Hank Nichols, Bob D'Amato, Marty Shapiro, Don Shea, Tom Lopes and Jeff Nichols all said to notify the coach. Of course, their resumes are surely not as extensive as yours nor as extensive as the head clinician for your state of Illinois. :-)

Z

"Carotto's Rules"
 

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot say on one hand, "you have to follow the rules," then make distictions that the rulebook does not make about calling 3 seconds or "coaching box violations." The rules do not speak about advantage/disadavantage for either, but you want to claim it is "Rut's Rules" when I make a distiction with this rule, just like anyone does with others. And remember Z, I am not the one handing out Ts left and right. I average less than one a year for my career. One of the reasons I do not have to give them, I am not in their face every two seconds to tell them something they are responsible for. Just like they are responsible for how many fouls their players have. But then again, you are in a basketball mecca state. So these are the major issues for the "all world" players and coaches that you have in your programs there I guess.

BTW, the individual I am talking about, worked 15 years in the Men's D1 and worked in the Big Ten. He is currently a College Assignor in the area and assigns a big HS Conference. And other current D1 Officials in attendence at his camp ,shared the same attitide. Oh, BTW again, one of the officials that runs this camp is a Big Time D1 Official who has done a National Championship Game and I beleive was in the Final Four this year (or very close). But do not forget, there was an offical in the original post that thought doing what you suggested was "schmoozing" the coaches. So I can see and understand that everyone does not agree on this issue. I also see how you did not mention his name because it did not jog with your opinions on this issue. But why not call his opinion, "Edgar Cartotto's Rules?" Or is that just not catchy for ya? And Cartotto has a belief I do not even share, I do not think you are schmoozing anyone by telling a coach anything, but that is the way he feels. I am not going to tell him to stop officiating because I disagree on this minor point. But then again, I will attend an NCAA Rules Meeting this October and I am sure I will meet some D1 Officials to ask. I do not know if you have ever been to one (probably not I see) but you see officials you watch on TV all the time that are in attendence. And BTW, Hank Nichols and Marcy Weston will be there. This might be the time to address this. Oh well, I digress.

Peace

Re:
 

Certainly I can. It's called common sense, officiating experience and adjusting to the game. Like I said, I am able to differentiate and reason. Some can, some can't. Even if there was no rule requiring me to inform a team when they used their final time-out, I still would do it. Not only as a courtesy (remember, as officials we're serving the players and coaches) but also because it's good preventative officiating. It just seems to make good common sense to do everything I can to avoid an ugly ending to a game when an excess T is called. I've seen it happen and it ain't pretty. Who doesn't remember Chris Webber for calling a T or not. I don't know if the officals notified the coaches or not (I bet they did or Michigan would have blamed them for it), but how could you not want to do everthing possible to avoid that ugly ending? It's similar to counting the players after a time-out to make sure there aren't 6 on the floor. It's the coaches responsibility too, but we also do our part right?

Z

I am not going to change my mind Z, I do not see this the same way you do.
 

So much common sense, you take special issue with something you are not keeping track of like a Football Official or Baseball Umpire do.

Which is the essence of your belief system. You would do it no matter what, do not say the rules are that reason. But you are grown, you can say whatever you like.

It is preventive officiating to not get involved in something I have nothing to do with. And better yet, what if that coach has been a a$$ the entire game, I do not want to have to T a coach for something at the end of the game, then put more focus on me rather than the coach. That is what happens when you stand next to their huddle or table, when you need to stay away. If a coach wants to yell across the court on you, then at least many people heard him/her say whatever they said to you. If you are standing next to them and they curse you out, chances are, it might be your word against their's. I will take my chances not being in their face.

Joe Crawford gave several Ts in a Dallas Maverick playoff game this year, not only were many of them justified, but the focus turned to Crawford instead of the coaches and players that got the Ts. And when an official gives a T at the end of the game, which might decide the game, you better have a good reason. Telling them about their timeout situation, for me and many other officials is not one of them. Sorry Z, get out of your area and out of your confront zone, you will find people do not always agree with you on this and many other things. Same goes for me.

I am a huge Michigan fan, Chris Webber called the timeout because his bench and coaches were signaling to him to do so. There was a (it was in SI I believe) picture of the entire bench telling him to call timeout. He did, the officials telling the coaches or not was not ever an issue. As a matter of fact, Billy Packard and Jim Nance (I think he was with him) made a point of this was a coaching issue. Never once did they say it was an official's responsiblity. You might say to yourself these guys have no clue, but this is what the public believes and thinks of this situation. So even if the officials told them or not, the public and the uneducated fan cannot understand why a coach would not be able to know when his team calls a timeout.

You are so right, it is similar. But when there are 6 on the court or if that 6th player just comes onto the court, we still give a T, and the coach is the one that gets the blame. Of course we might take a minute to count, but I have had that 6th player just run onto the court because they thought they were playing. There is only so much we can do. Are we suppose to hold their hands and tell them how to shoot and dribble as well?

Peace

Let's make this a little clearer. I call TO, my 4th. Table and my scorer agree. My opponent calls TO, it's marked as OUR last TO in the official book, my scorer marks it correctly. My scorer doesn't compare notes because we didn't call TO and the books balanced the last time we did call TO.

If you are communicating with the table regarding the TO situation and they tell you at this moment that this is my last TO, we are liable to be able to fix the official book because it is fresh in your mind who called TO and the table is clearly wrong. I call TO 3 minutes later and we are hosed because we won't be able to reconstruct that the table was wrong 3 minutes ago. This simply because you didn't think it was your job to tell me I am out of TOs.

JRUT -
You are completely inconsistent in your so-called logic. Your response is that I need to keep a book, but that isn't really relevant. My book doesn't count, and it is your job to tell me when the official book says I am out of TOs. My having a scorer is irrelevant if my scorer's version of events will have no impact on your decisions.

You say you will go by the official book and I agree. You need to tell me what the official book says, because my book can have it right but we will be held to a book that may be wrong. I need to know that the official book says we are out of timeouts, and you're supposed to tell me.

This is only going to go so far.
 

Well you want to know something, your book does count. It counts a lot. Because if there is a dispute, chances are your scorer is going to tell the officials of any situation that is not correct. And as an official, we only go with the "official book" if we do not have any definitive knowledge to solve the problem ourselves. But many times, we might change what is in the official book, if the vistiting team's book. For example, an issue with a 3 or a 2 point shot. Or who we called a foul on with 4:12 in the 4th quarter. I also assume that if you have a home game, the scorer was assigned by your AD or Game Management. So if your book is the "official" one, you better have them trained accordingly. All I do is tell them what I expect and ask them if they have any questions (if I am the Referee), but in the real world, they might not do anything I want (like marking in the book before we have reported a foul). There is the real world and there is the rulebook. In the real world, everyone does not behave the way it is stated. I am only going to worry about what is important to me to manage "my" game. And this never seems to be a top 10 issue with the official I work with or myself. [/B][/QUOTE]

I do not <b>need</b> to tell you anything. In all cases, you spend more time next to that table than I do. You do not move around the court as I do. If you have a question about the book, ask them. It is allowed in the rules, as a head coach you can confer with the table about mistakes with timing or scoring (10-5-1c). Also in the real world, the head coach is the only one that can do this, but if the Assistant coach does this as well, I am not going to worry about it, as long as they are not yelling at me. You have the ability to ask for a timeout if something is incorrect and the Referee has to sort it out. If I am going to tell you at all, it is the responsiblity of the scorer to say something to me (or my partners), not for me to find out or seek this information. And if you have been good and not complaining all game, I will gladly give you information that is <b>passed along to me thru the scorer</b>. But I am not going to find out, or make sure what I think is correct. Just like every other scoring issue, unless I know something is wrong, I am not going to bother them all night to find out. Sorry, I think they have a job to do, and me coming behind them all night is not one of my duties.

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Jul 3rd, 2003 at 12:41 PM]

Rut,
You are now using announcers as sources for your position. LOL ROF! Who will you cite next, Art Bell?

Z

Re: Who is zebraman?
 

Whether you want to live in an "officiating fantasy world" or not, but officiating is not just about us. If a coach wants you to call, "over the back" you cannot approach them in most cases with rulebook language and logic. You have to find other ways that they understand there is no such thing. But then again Z, this is why when I go to camp and officiate my games, you are no where to be found. ;)

Stay in the Pacific Northwest, where the Trail Blazers and Supersonics are your only basketball role-models. :D

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Jul 3rd, 2003 at 01:26 PM]

Re: Who is zebraman?
 

Bingo. That is why we work with them in a cooperative fashion. Informing them when they are out of timeouts is just another tool to do this. Easy to do and it goes such a long way to effective game management.

Another indication that you are failing to manage the game is your earlier comment that <i>"what if that coach has been a a$$ the entire game, I do not want to have to T a coach for something at the end of the game."</i> If he's been an A$$ the entire game, you have not done your job which is maintaining control of the game and not allowing a coach to be an a$$ the entire game. If you are scared to go near the bench because you might give out a T, you are completely inept at controlling the game.

How long did it take you to think up that Trailblazer and Sonic comment that you edited in? That was a real knee slapper. Man, just call you Chris Rock.

Z

Re: Re: Who is zebraman?
 

What game management issues have I had to deal with? I am sure you will make it up as we go along.


No Z, if he has been an a$$ the entire game, that says more about him than me. I am not a babysitter and coaches are not children. But then again, you and others are the ones talking about all the problems you have with coaches and the Ts you had to give out. Even if a coach does not like something we do in our game, I draw a line in the sand. If they want to go they cross it they can go. But I have not had to do that in over 6 or 7 years. So I must be doing something right. Especially when I keep getting hired. But you know, so why don't you keep telling me. ;)


Well when they hold a big time camp in your part of the country, I will get my plane ticket and come. But I might be waiting for a very long time.

Peace

I think it's more important that the coach knows he is out of time-outs, than whether the scorer, or the crew, was the first to check on the number of time-outs that are available.
[/B][/QUOTE]Somehow,I missed this post before.Musta been having to much fun with the other one.:D

Agree completely,mick.I'll check late in a game to see how many TO's each team has left,too.I don't bother telling a team anything,though,until I know for sure that they are using their last TO-usually when the scorer informs me of that.Then I will always let a team know then.I won't go into a huddle and interrupt a head coach,nor will I interrupt him while he's talking to someone.I will tell an assistant coach ,if one is available,to let the head coach know that he is out of TO's.Once I let someone on the team know about the TO situation,I'm gone immediately.Not gonna hang around to make conversation.

Don't mind calling yappy T's. Don't like calling crappy T's.

YU.P., assistant coaches are specifically useful in that, and maybe only in that, situation.

<HR>
If yer goin' through hell, ... keep on goin'.

Maybe we can bring some sanity back to this little spat.
Scorers make mistakes, but so do we as officials. Should we stop making calls because we make mistakes?
To me this seems logical. Late in a game, I am going to the book to ask what the foul situation is etc. during a time out. If I find out that Team A is out of TO's then I go tell Team A they are out of TO's (Ast or HC) IF IF IF, Team A thinks they have 1 left this is a GREAT time to sort everything out. This way you don't have the messy situation of Team A asking for a TO they think they have, but the table says they don't. Conversely, (Or adidasly, or Nikely) I am not predisposed to tell a coach they have 1, 2 or 3 TO's left. Why? It doesn't matter. They have the ability to ask for and be granted a TO. Also, what I don't want is to have to break down the :30 and full count. When they have none left, then the game can be affected.
Hopefully, I am just repeating information that the assistant coaches have already given them. To me this is good game management