Thoughts on this dunk...etc.
 

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My hope is someone spoke with the officials afterwards and said "I don't care how good this player may be. These are high school kids and we can't let them do stuff like this."

I believe that the defender had LGP. But this is easily a no-call.

I'd like to know if the dunker said anything to the defender. If so, and it was untoward, I'd T him up.

I think the OP was referring to the stand over and stare down. I got nothing on the play, and a whack for the taunt. L seemed to be paying more attention to the kid who just got dunked on.

Concur, the L is too locked in on the defender.

Nothing on the dunk, easy T for taunting.

Whack! Taunting.

I can almost hear the coach..."But he didn't say anything. How can that be a T?"

Nothing on the dunk as it looks like the guy bailed out and avoided significant contact. But I am OK with the taunting as he stood over him. He does not have to say much for this to be a T IMO.

Peace

Sweet dunk ... messes it up with the taunting BS ... WHACK!!!

Defender has LGP then loses it as he takes a step to the right while the offensive player is in the air. No advantage/disadvantage we play on.

Standing over the player with the stare down...easy T. Fortunately for the dunker the Lead didn't have his peripherals open to see both players. :eek:

I agree it's a no call but that defender didn't lose LGP at all.

After the play, probably should have had a taunting T.

Gosh, couldn't the defender have just turned away?

I agree it's a no call, but I hate the excuse that he "bailed out to avoid significant contact". Not that your wrong that he did back up a bit but he is allowed to do so to protect himself from possible injury. Obviously we don't need to have "significant" contact for a foul to occur. The defender was in position and the offense clearly hit him. I would have been Ok seeing PC or No call on this.

I want to be sure that I am not singling you out JRut even though I used your comment, it just reminded me of a conversation I had this season with some other officials.

The point is that by backing out, the defender actually reduced the contact from what would have been a foul to incidental.

Yes, a defender is allowed to back up, but if in doing so he drastically reduces contact, then he may well actually avoid taking the charge in doing so. We don't call fouls based on what would have happened.

It's just like when a defender starts leaning backwards to brace for contact. Yes, he can do it, but when he does, then we have to judge whether he was knocked down or if he fell down on his own.

It looks to me that he was trying to not get run over and fell as a result. If he got run over I would have no problem with a call being made. He looked like he put his arms up to suggest he was getting out of the way and did not take any contact directly in the chest or torso.

Peace

Sorry, I meant in order to avoid feeling like he was taunted.

Seriously, it goes right along with what you talked about in the other thread; you don't have to say anything to intimidate/taunt someone.

Easy T for taunting. Stands over him and gives him the dismissive wave as he leaves the area.

I am a big guy, I can handle myself just fine.

I am not saying that he cannot avoid significant contact, but it does not look like significant contact took place and was mostly incidental than a foul. It looks to me like he fell because he was off balance and trying not to getting actually run the heck over. If he took all the contact in the chest then I have a different story. It looks to me like most of the contact was with his arms and the dunker's legs trying to shield him and because he was off balance the little contact makes him fall.

Not all contact is a foul and this does not look like enough for me to call a foul in this situation.

Peace

My only questioning about what was said was to illustrate that it would not be much of a factor, but could be the factor if I heard his actual words. His actions would be enough, but you know a coach would ask, "What did he say?" And if he did not say anything that would be up for dispute if we called a T on this player or not. I never was trying to suggest his words are what got him a T from me at least. I was just saying that what he said might have made this easier. Remember officials have all these standards to give a T for all kinds of things.

Peace

I agree with you and Snaqs comments regarding why to pass on this particular event. I was just reminded about a conversation I had about how some will not make the call unless there is "significant contact".

I just wanted you to know the reason why I specifically used your comment.

So in your words, Peace!

You have to keep in mind there is a rule in the rulebook called "Incidental Contact." So contact must displace or be significant to give a foul. And on these plays I want more contact that actually knocks the player down, not them being kind of off balance and they fall. Total judgement call and if someone called this a foul I would certainly understand. I just do not think or hope I would make such a call. Heck under the right circumstances the player would not have to fall for me to call a foul either. But this is a constant thing I think we need to go through to decide if we should call a foul.

Peace

Why would he have to say anything? He just threw it on the kid's head and then he stands over him. He "said" all he needed to say with the stare.

If that's not called as a taunt we're asking for it to happen again...which means we end up writing post-game reports that include the line "...and then the fight started."

In a situation like this one, can a defender raise his arms vertically and stiffen them up to prevent a dunk?

Yes, MWC. That's verticality. If he obtains legal guarding position before the shooter leaves the floor the defender has floor-to-ceiling rights. He can also duck, turn or shield himself with his arms.

It's still a no-call
 

And, if contact is on those straight-up arms, it's not going to be a charge.

It looked like to me he stuck his arms out in front and that was what made initial contact. That being said I will always give the defender some room or expect they will try to protect themselves or shield the contact.

Peace

In order to issue a T, not only do you have to know it's worthy of a T, you also have to know it's not worthy of a no-call.