12-13 rule changes
 

Any idea when these will be out?

Typically toward the end of May...

Based on memory alone, they announce the changes in mid-May and then they give further comments after this in May. Usually by the time we have HS camp season, we are fully aware of the rules changes. I attend a college camp in late May and I remember we have the changes by that time.

Peace

It's Just Like Christmas Morning ...
 

They came out May 5 last year:

NFHS | Penalties for Fouls during Throw-ins Changed in High School Basketball

Thanks to all that responded

Anything in particular you're hoping to see changed or added?

I'm hoping for an IAABO switching change. I'd like to see the calling official stay tableside. Watching others attempt to explain my call to coaches & me telling coaches to ask the calling official has gotten old...

Well, if you hadn't chatted it up so much, they wouldn't have changed it back. :D

IKR, but since then I have learned!!

We should be done conversing before the 2nd FT is administered.

I like to think my voice and mechanics at the spot and when reporting give the coach all the information he needs.

Although its still a work in progress, back when we stayed tableside I had zero court presense & my report to the table wasnt believable either :o

You're absolutely right though!

Fire Up The Flux Capacitor ...
 

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbn...1842607c212f97

Back to the future? We used to do this, half the time, many, many years ago. In a two person system, the trail official would always stay to the left of the free throw shooter, which would put us in front of the coach half the time. Always the same coach.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.: Remember this? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

The reason IAABO didn't go with the FED mechanics change in 09 was to keep us AWAY from the coaches.


I think this is a good idea.

I much prefer going table side so I can be near the coach.

I'm aware of the reason why they changed it, but personally, I have no problem communicating with coaches after a foul call.

I don't care either way. I don't see why we need to be communicating with coaches after every foul call.

You don't. I don't. Lots of experienced officials don't have any problems explaining a call to a coach.

But you have to remember that more than half of the scholastic level games played (HS and below) are sub-varsity games. And these games are often officiated by inexperienced officials and coached by inexperienced coaches. When a bang-bang occurs and you then put an inexperienced, possibly rattled, official directly in front of an inexperienced, possibly explosive, coach. . .

Just send him/her opposite.

There's also another reason for NOT making the calling official the new Trail. Where do most of the foul calls come from? The Lead official. If that official then goes to new Trail, where will that official be during the next possession? In the new Lead position -- where we just said most of the foul calls come from. So you could put an official in position where s/he will be the primary official for 3 or 4 or 5 foul calls in a row in certain game situations.

Just send him/her opposite and let somebody else become the new Lead on the next possession. (Or send him/her tableside, but change the mechanics so that the tableside official is the C for free throws.)

I agree, but during the course of the game when those few questionable calls happen, it would be nice to have the calling official right there for clarification.

I know coaches are tired of hearing me say, "ask the calling official."


Had a game between a team from Utah & Minnesota yesterday. We went tableside on purpose, as our crew had no credibility with either team & we thought it would be good for communication purposes.
When the Minnesota coach wanted to talk after every whistle or non-whistle, we told him to pick his spots. Obviously he never understood what we meant (summer coaches :rolleyes:) so we simply put him on ignore.

Yeah that makes sense for the HS level... I guess we dont know how to end the conversation before the final FT is administered in NCAA-M.

yack, yack, yack
 

Trouble with being table side after a foul call is you are then ripe for the stage whispers where some high school coach who thinks he's the next Alex Hannum speaks to an assistant in a voice intentionally loud enough for you to hear and thinks he's immune from getting wacked since he's "not talking to you" so when you do hit the T he goes into "shocked look of disbelief/wha-did-I-do" mode, designed to show you up, so then you gotta decide whether it's enough for T #2 which means a suspension in some states. Best to just stay away, this isn't a debating society or a roundtable chat. If he asks a public "where'd you get that" you can give a quick answer and trot opposite after reporting. The day I voluntarily put myself at a coach's disposal to promote my credibility is the day I start working lacrosse, which as everyone knows was invented to give kids who can't hit a curveball something to do.

Actually we have been doing this for years in college going opposite table so now this is really an aesthetic choice as far as I am concerned. I was happy at first to go table side, but found it kind of silly at times as all coaches did is want to discuss a foul.

Peace

This is only college men's correct?

I believe college women's goes table side.

NCAA-W still go tableside.

Correct, womens calling officials go tableside & the calling official becomes the tableside T on FTs in the League as well.

Going tableside doesn't mean you have to stand that close to the coach...if it's a contentious call, then move 10 feet out onto the court and stand away from them while the free throws are being shot. If not shooting free throws, get the ball back in play quick and coach can't keep talking...

Yes men's basketball. I do not work women's college so I would not be referencing what they do over there.

Peace

+1

I wouldnt have a tough block/charge call & go stand right beside the offending teams coach.

Just clarifying for any new members that didn't know the difference and didn't know that JRut does college men's only :D

You sure?

When reporting I can usually tell if they want to talk to me or not. If they do, then tough call or not, I'll tell them what I saw. They deserve that much.
If not, then I'll stand away & let them have the last word if they want to make comments/statement as opposed to asking what I saw.

Just sayin!!
 

And if you have to clarify that to newer members (what side I work or that there is a difference) then they are not smart enough to do any college in the first place honestly. All you have to do is watch a game and you will tell there are differences. My point was it was not a big deal from my standpoint as it was not a major issue at the college level, I think the average official can be alright not going table side in HS.

Peace

Why do they deserve any explanation? You may want to give it to them, but that does not mean they deserve an explanation. And considering that everyone at the HS level clearly does not do 3 Person mechanics for every game like we pretty much do in my area or state, what do you do when you have no mechanics that makes you available? I get that is you have a good coach and they ask a question and you happened to be there, but it is not our job to give them any explanation as they often do not accept what we say to them anyway.

Peace

As with most things in officiating there are no absolutes, always or automatics. When a coach has a resonable question on a play that could've went either way & I'm right there in front of him, I think he deserves to know what we saw.

When I'm not available, I give them the finger... the index finger that is :D
Thats pretty universal in its meaning.

I disagree, communication with coaches is a HUGE part of our job. Everybody that worked deep into March Madness were excellent communicators with coaches.

Now if they wanna pushback & argue the explanation I give them, its simple, "Oh I'm sorry, did I lead you to believe this was a debate, coach. That's what I saw on the play."
And yes, he can have the last word after that, because I'm walking away.

Exactly. Had one of those coaches this weekend who felt his opinion was needed on any call he didn't like. Last interchange had with him:

Coach: Defense can't smack the backboard when the ball is on the rim.
Me: It was a legitimate block attempt.
Coach: I don't care.....(I immediately walked away and couldn't hear the rest of his comment and I made sure not to speak to him again after that)

Summer coaches are too funny!

I had one over the weekend say the top of the backboard is out. Much like yourself, when the comment is totally incorrect my tolerance level drops a bit.
"There are 6 sides to a backboard, only 1 is out, coach."
I saw the addition being done in his head trying to count the sides... 3-4 trips later.

By the way, these arent the plays or coaches I feel deserve an explanation on.
Its legit concerns, by legit coaches on questionable plays that I'm speaking of.

My point is an explanation is a courtesy. I have looked at this for a long time and still look at it that way today. And usually they only get an explanation when they have been behaving during the most of the game. For example we have gone two quarters and a coach has not said anything, then all of a sudden asks a question when I am standing right next to him. Our explanation ultimately is at the table. Usually much conversation usually turns into a debate (at the HS level). I am not saying to never talk to a coach, but just take issue with the characterization that we owe it to them to tell them something on a tough call. What they need to do is coach their kids and stop worrying about what we are doing or calling. Unless I have missed something, I have never seen a foul called and because of the conversation with a coach the call is taken back and we forget it never happened.

Peace

Yesterday, shot, rebound, shot, rebound, shot, rebound....

The entire defensive bench (players & coaches) is yelling "3-seconds, 3-seconds....".

Foul (partner called it).

I'm by the bench and turn to them and say...."that sounds good except that the count starts over after every shot" (didn't get into the actual specifics of when it really starts and stops).

They all look at each other and say "Oh, oops" and chuckle.....a half dozen people will now have one less thing to be goofy over.

Playing the ref card
 

Had the extreme pleasure this weekend to practice my craft before 2 self-absorbed AAU coaches. First game, blue coach announces he's a 29 year veteran official. 3rd game, team from same org. coach reminds us he's been an official for 39 years!! All the while complaining about a missed arrow change that cost his team a possession. They were ahead by 30+ at the time...

Lah me...
(in honor of Jurassic Ref, RIP)

re:
 

Just to add my 2 cents...and this isn't earth shattering, but if an official is going to be tableside anyway (3-man) why not have it be the calling official? :confused:

From one of the NCAA-W folks on the scene
 

As has been said, we go table-side on all calls in NCAA-W and it isn't a huge issue. If a coach has a legit question, I/we answer. If they have a question on every call, I say "coach, I'll answer questions but we can't have a rules clinic on every whistle." That generally stops things. Plus the college coaches are told by our supervisors that we won't answer questions on every single play.

I do the same thing in NY girls' H.S. since NCAA-W modified rules are used. There's a bit more talking since H.S. coaches ask more - if not great - questions. The one thing I like about it is it prevents a coach yelling from 50 feet away to find out why I made a certain call. For the most part the conversations are pretty quiet. Those times where the coach starts getting out of hand I just handle it appropriately.

This is why you cannot compare what we do in HS to college. College coaches and players are a totally different breed. And when you T a coach for stuff they say, they know why. A HS coaches can damn near curse you out and they think they did nothing wrong. And most of all that is why the mechanic, could, should and is different in many cases.

Peace

I work FED rules and I work NCAA-M rules. My communication with HS coaches is no more better or easier just because we go tableside.

Same here.

Peace

I preferred it as well, for the same reasons, so I hope IAABO goes back. I'd rather see them give it more time, and give the officials who are working 3-whistle more time to work on learning when to communicate and when to turn away. If you're working games with three, it's a good time to learn.

Of course, the games where a coach is more likely to yell 50 feet across the court don't usually have three officials.

Been There, Done That ...
 

Middle school girls games?

yup

I love this line from coaches. It's a rare form of honesty...they don't really care what the rule says, they just want it to go their way.

Nice. However, I raise you with this situation I had last weekend.

Middle School girls, 6th grade, about 3 seconds to go. I'm the L administering on the end line, when my arm completes it's 4th swing a guy in the stands starts screaming, "Why aren't you calling 3 seconds in the key?!?!?!?!" :eek:

You should've replied, "Sorry, I was caught up watching that the thrower-inner didn't move his feet so that I'd have to call 'Travelling.'" :D

Boys' V coach, early this past season: "He's in the lane! He's in the lane! How come you're not calling that????"
Me, at C: "Coach, the ball's still in the backcourt."
Coach: (quiet rest of the game) :o

Yea I agree most coaches are dumb guys and dont know this.

I had the exact same situation in a Varsity game this past season...

Coach: "Look at him! He's camping in there! Why aren't you calling 3 seconds?!!?"

Me: "Coach, I got a 10 second count going here. Can't do both."

Coach: "Crap! I'm sorry."

Apologized profusely between quarters and didn't say much the rest of the game. Just smiled and told him "no big deal, coach."

Caveat ! ! !
 

Hey, hey there...careful, cowboy. I used to be one.
And some of them really are quite smart.
But that's okay, I'm not sensitive.
Only to the phrase "Don't Be a Plumber about It." :D

Funny you should mention that...

Monday, 8th grade boys game. I'm the T administering on the sideline directly in front of B's bench. A1 shuffles his feet and moves maybe 6-12 inches. The coach starts yelling, "He's travelling!!!!!!!!!! Call it!!!!!!"

After the ball is inbounded, I call a foul on B1, walk towards the table with the coaching staring at me with a, "WTF" look on his face. I say, "Coach, there's no travelling or dribbling rules during a throw in, I'll show you the book after the game if you want." Coach looked at me even more puzzled than before. All I could do was laugh inside.

Why are people surprised that someone coaching an 8th grade rec team (or any rec team for that matter) doesn't know the rules? They probably have never read (or seen) the rule books.

Just a thought but the one reason I can think of for IAABO delaying a return to the table-side mechanic has to do as much with us as the coaches. Some folks in stripes just can't shut up, especially the ones who should get into the book more often. When you combine that with coaches who can't shut up *and* have shaky rules knowledge nothing good can happen.

My enjoyable call from a long time ago: I'm the L in a two-man crew. A1 is in the lane, puts up a shot, misses everything and grabs the rebound.

As the ball touches his hands I start preparing for B's coach to yell for a travel....which he does (actually, he started yelling "That's a self-pass!").

The T came when he lost it after A1 hit the put-back and was fouled.