Nuggets Play
 

APG

Any chance we can see 6:41 in the 4th quarter, Denver vs. Minnesota.

There's a restricted arc play that I wanted to get people's insight on, granted this isn't used for High School yet, but wanted thoughts on timing of whistle and application of restricted arc.

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I could have lived with a no call here, but if there is going to be a call based on the RA as I understand it, it would be on the defense.

Peace

What did you think of the timing of the whistle?

Fanboy :D

Not at all, I didn't mind the call. I personally thought the contact was marginal, but well within my limited knowledge of the restricted arc rule. So I had no problem with the block. What struck me as weird, was just the timing of the whistle.

Anyone else think the whistle was just unusually late?

Talking NCAA-M here: a secondary defender CAN be in/over the restricted area and make contact with the offensive player....so long as the contact is not deemed to be illegal (a block, a charge, or otherwise...).

Using the NBAs' terminology, I view this contact as being "incidental contact" or "marginal contact". I do not view it as "contact that warrants a foul". I would not have blown the whistle.

I do not have a problem with the perceived "lateness" of the whistle...The best officials will see the "start, development, and finish" of a play. That is what the Lead did here.....

Agree.

Take a look at the right leg of the defender that moves the airborne shooter slightly off of his path. Subtle but effective tactic IMO... enough to warrant a whistle on the miss, but not nearly enough to award an AND1.

I thought the L did a great job of being patient! It seems as though he called the "walk under" as you see the defender takes two steps to his right after the shooter alighted & intiates lower body contact while standing in the arc.
I guarentee you had the shot went in it would've been a play-on.

Late & right trumps quick & wrong.

I have a no call here.
I've worked with partners that have whistles on plays like this (After a missed shot). I've asked about it and there response is they don't like giving "ticky tack and ones" or "sloppy and ones."

Would 4-White meet the definition of a secondary defender? I don't see any other defender in question.

I don't have a problem with the patient whistle, but I'm not convinced there was a foul here, so I'd have nothing.

I honestly do not know what that has to do with this play? It seemed fine to me what the official's timing was, I just think it was marginal contact looking at the replay, but I do see why something was called in real time. But I would hope I would not make that call considering no one seemed to be displaced and the defense simply stood there for the most part and prevented an easy shot. The only thing I would possibly question is if he made the call because of the arm contact but it appears he called a block instead.

Peace

Hmmm I guess the calling official & myself are the only ones that saw the defender take 2 steps to his right & walk under the airborne shooter while in the arc :confused:

I see the defender giving ground after contact. Nothing illegal.

I guess, because not only was he standing in that spot before the shooter went airborne (and I believe NBA rules are a little different here) the defender was standing in that spot. According to NCAA Rules and NF Rules that looks like he is in a LGP to me. It is very close too, but if it is that close I am giving the benefit to the defender, then again that is me.

Peace

He was definitely a secondary defender. The Lead pointed at the RA when he blew his whistle so he is definitely indicating with his mechanics that the arc played a role in why he called the foul.

Is he really a secondary defender? Now this could be a different classification in the NBA rule, but in college the SA player was cutting to the basket and did not beat anyone. Would that be a secondary defender in NCAA rules? I was under the impression that was only the right classification if you beat someone. He went right to the basket and got the ball in the lane on a pass, that seems he is the primary defender. Maybe I should review the ruling they gave on the NCAA video, but that does not seem to fit the classification of a secondary defender.

Peace

Wasnt the drive to the basket off a pick n roll/slip?

That would make the defender of the screener (soon-to-be-shooter) the primary & the defender in the RA becomes the secondary.

APG - Where are you ??????
 

I think this is a perfect call in the "NBA" world, by definition contact occurs with a foot in the RA. I like the patient whistle by the lead,if the ball goes in the basket we have a no call.

As far as the NCAA game, IMO - You should have a whistle immediately when the contact occurs becuase of where the feet are.......

APG - where is your NBA insight ?????

The official in the play pointed to the RA, so in doing so, he said that the play would have been legal (in that the defender had his torso in the path of the offensive player and beat him to the spot) but the defender was located in the restricted area.

IMO, this is a correct call. I had the player barely catching the ball outside the lower defensive box. In such, the restricted area comes into play. The defender gave the offensive player receiving the pass an opportunity to land and stop/change direction so he's fine there. For the defender not to be called for a blocking foul (since he was located in the restricted area), he has to alight in an attempt to block the shot. He doesn't and contact was more than marginal IMO as it clearly affected the offensive player's shot...thus the blocking foul.

I didn't have a problem with the timing of the whistle. For one, there's a lot to digest on this play. The official has to decide if the player caught the ball inside or outside the lower defensive box. Then he has to judge if the defender has a legal position based off of that. Then he had to decide if the contact was marginal or illegal. It took him half a beat to decide if the contact was legal or not and IMO he got it right.