Griner Dunk
 

If this were an NFHS game, does the player's action rise to the level of unsportsmanlike?

Don't get me wrong. It's an exciting play for her and for the fans... but do you let a high schooler get away with a pull up and rim shake in a 31-point blowout?

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Wondered the same thing when I saw the replay. Seems to me I've seen this called this year in NCAAM games, but imagine the whining that would have ensued.

This would not even be a thought process in a HS game from my point of view. I would totally leave that alone.

Peace

Nothing there. She lets go as soon as momentum stops ber body from swinging. I look for a chin up motion or prolonged hanging when nobody else is below.

Ok, I'll bite BZ: What, for you, constitutes a pull up? I guess I think she does.

Even so, I guess my thought is that although it's close, I probably pass.

However, if there's been something else (or a series of something elses) in the game that would lead me to interpret the action (pull up, shake, yell) as a taunt, I'm going to get it.

I look for arms bending at the elbows and the head moving up toward the rim. Didn't see either of those from Griner nor does she vocalize anything. This one looks as tame as they get from my perspective.

In this neck of the woods, this would likely be a T.

No. Nothing. That's not a pull up.

Clear whack.

My opinion is that since she is the only one capable of that in the womens game and it will certainly be the ESPN highlight, they just ignored the unsporting aspect of it. Doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

Had I been on the opposing side, she would have received a hard foul the next time that she caught the ball.

I vote no. My standard is bending the elbows and/or bringing the knees up.

Nothing.

That is not a technical foul in a high school game or college game, either gender. No way, no how.

Wow!! Way to just throw that crew under the bus. You really think they ignored it because it was gonna be on ESPN?? Really??

THis is absolutely nothing. She took care of her business, and headed back to play defense when she was done. Nothing unsporting. Not in anyone's face. No yells at the camera on the end line. Nothing. Play on!!

I have nothing.
She dunks, she swings, she gets down, and gets back on D. What does she do wrong? Get excited by a great play?
People who are whacking any player for this would look to me like either not understanding passionate play, a control freak, picking nits, or missing it.

When a player is dunking the basketball and basically at full speed, they are going to swing a little bit. That was a run of the mill dunk. A chin up to me would be an extended hang. And honestly I doubt these officials see many dunks anyway, so I doubt they would call something unless it was a "no doubt" action. I give them credit for not being ultra technical and moving on. This did cross my mind as to if it was bad, but when I saw the replay this was about as normal of a dunk as any I have ever seen or typically see.

Peace

Hell no, that's nothing. Never crossed my mind.

Looked like a play on to me. For those who say its a T, I'm sure the play caught the NCAA-W officials off guard. How often do they referee above the rim plays? Would that have been the first T ever for that infraction in a women's game? Nobody wants to be the first to call a T for flopping... I wouldn't want to be the first to call a T in this situation either. What a frickin play!!

Agreed
 

I've seen so much worse than this - not called......never even thought about it.

Not sure I see your reasoning here. What part of the act is unsporting?

I wouldn't say it caught them off guard (at least I hope it wouldn't) as if I'm pre-gaming a NCAA-W tourney game with arguably the highest profile and likely best player in the NCAA-W game today that you wouldn't know she was capable of dunking or knowing that she would try. It would probably be right after how we as a crew expect the other team to guard her and watch for the holds/grabs etc...

And back to the original question no I wouldn't call a T on this....

I'm Glad That I Have Two Hands ...
 

Agree. Absolutely nothing unsporting here.

The real question is did she grasp the ring to prevent an injury to herself, or to another player, all legal, or did she grasp it for some other illegal reason.

If this were a male player in my high school game (we don't have female high school players who can dunk here in my little corner of Connecticut), I would probably not have charged him (or her) with a technical foul. On the other hand, the grasp seems to last a fraction of a second longer than most that I see, so I would never criticize any who would charge a technical foul. On the other hand, there really isn't any attempt at a "chin up", so I'm back to my original "good no call".

How's that for "fence sitting"? Is it too late for me to run for President? Romney, Santorum, Obama, or BillyMac in 2012? A chicken in every pot and a ball in every basket. Tippecanoe and BillyMac too. Read my lips. No new high school rules. Fifty-four forty is better than overtime.

Agree

They need her to start GT to make it harder. Typically though, these officials work other than women's games during the off season. So it is not like they have never seen a dunk or GT

She did pull up and slap the backboard. She did not just hang there and wait until her momentum allowed her to drop down.

By rule, I'd say it has to be a T.

Not saying that I really agree with the rule though ... and in this case if the officials had called it that's ALL that we would be reading about right now!

No she did not slap the backboard, her hand got caught in the net. Looked at it a few times and cannot see slap, just hand getting caught.

What rule is that? The rule says that a player cannot grab the rim excessively, it does not say anything about what that specifically means. But by practice a player that is going hard to the basket is going to be allowed on some level to hang as if they let go at the wrong time they could be off balance. It does not say hanging on the rim is illegal, just talks about when it is excessive it is a T which is up for some judgment and interpretation of the NCAA and official what that actually means. Now I am sure NCAA Women's has very little ruling on this as they almost never see this, but this is not a play I have seen referenced as a T on the Men's side.

Peace

Yes, she did. Her left hand. You can hear it also (because of the mics on the backboard)

If you can slap the backboard you have grabbed the rim excessively.

Pulling yourself up on the rim has always been "excessive" in the men's game whenever I have heard this issue discussed.

I am not seeing this slap on the backboard you are convinced that took place. I hear the ring going back in place and I see a hand in the net. Not maybe the hand touched the backboard, but not something that was clearly obvious to everyone or something I had to look at to even kind of see. If that was hanging on the rim, then most dunks in the Kentucky-Baylor game I just witnessed were excessive. I do not recall any Ts being called in that game with the several dunks that took place.

Peace

NFHS 10-3-3,and nowhere does it say "excessively."

No where?

Peace

I just saw a missed dunk from a Kansas player that was a lot worse than the Baylor play we are talking about and nothing was called. And no foul was given either.

Peace

That's because it didn't happen.

Go to :29 of the video for the best look.

If I have to go back to the video again to see something I never saw in the first place, then it must not have been significant for me to say was illegal. There is nothing in the rules that says touching the backboard is illegal, especially when it is inadvertent at best.

Peace

Brad, you're making stuff up. What you hear is the rim snapping back. Her left hand gets caught in the net and never makes contact with backboard.

Not in my neck of this neck of the woods.

Interesting how divided we are on this one.

I say no. Elbows barely bent beyond normal swinging motion.

There are a hundred dunks a week in men's games which are this "excessive" on the rim and receive 0 attention.

Interesting. My NFHS 10-3-3 (2011-12) says...

I see a notable difference here. Is yours from this year, JRut?

NCAA rules 10-6-1f

Yes, and this was an NCAA game not a NF game.

Peace

Right, but the OP asked...

Unsportsmanlike conduct isn't actually relevant to the rule, so what I believe he's asking is whether the act rises to meet 10-3-3.

My comments you responded to were not about the NF Rules. I was responding to Brad who was talking about the NCAA rule wording.

Not every comment or conversation is about the OP. ;)

Peace

Go figure.
 

I never dreamed this would generate so much discussion. Very interesting.

BTW: I'm headed to the Baylor-Tennessee women's game tonight here in Des Moines. We'll see if she dunks again.

It's clear as day to me ... of course, others sometimes have to wait for another angle of the video to be shown that I am right —*like in the goaltending thread from a few weeks back :D

I was one of those "others". However, my stance on the other was that the original video was too grainy to tell. On this one, that is not the case. Her hand came no where near hitting the backboard. If you're going to call a T on this one (and I don't think I would) it will not be for slapping the backboard.

Ok —*I take it back ... hadn't watched the rest of the video and was only looking at the first play. I think it's her elbow that hits and makes the sound ... but it's not her hand.

No way her elbow contacted the backboard.

Inside info.......
 

A friend of mine worked the NCAA W tourney and this is what he said...............no way would a guy make that call if he wanted to move on. If a female makes the call it would be ok....but no way in hell is he hittin his whistle

Pretty sure it was her knee then.

Interesting point.

I think that in this case the call would take away from the game. Women's basketball fans are excited that they have a player that can legitimately dunk. Let's everyone enjoy it before we start ringing them up!

She'd probably have to about do a handstand on the rim in order to be rung up.

Ha!

How would that be OK??? The whole gist of the thread is...THERE IS NOTHING THERE! Is it OK just because it's a female ringing up a female? If that's the case, that is pretty screwed up.

You're "friend" is also intimating that there is a different set of standards for females doing NCAA W. Does he really want to go down that road?

Whether he wants to go there isn't really relevant to deciding whether he's right or not.

I don't know if there is a different set of standards, but it wouldn't surprise me. In many segments of society and the work force there are often unwritten differences that apply to one group of people that don't apply to another.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it is.

I agree. I've seen it first hand. Just surprised an NCAA official would make a statement like that out loud.

Is there the same type of thing regarding a male official calling a technical foul on a high profile female coach?

I can't imagine that this is leading to any kind of productive conversation.

I have never heard any coordinator or anyone else in women's basketball discuss the gender of officials. I don't think they care as long as you get the job done.

And yet there's a supposed comment by someone who worked the NCAAW tournament. I wouldn't *expect* such a comment to be made on the record by anyone in a position of power. Doesn't mean that this line of thinking isn't out there. Mainly, I was curious.

I have.

Multiple times.

To my face, and to large groups of officials at camps.

Yeah? And what was said?

To my face: "I don't need any more white males on my staff."

To a group: "I will always hire the female candidate if her officiating is even close to the male's."

Several other things along the same line...

That person is no longer a coordinator, but that has nothing to do with those kids of comments that were made on a fairly regular basis.

lol

Yup. Amazing how officials with 3-4 years experience are climbing the college ladder and working HS state finals. I've heard camp clinicians (back when I actually went to NCAAW camps) say the same thing. The woman will always get hired ahead of the white male if they're even close.

One doesn't need to hear the comments to know what's happening, but it is nice to know someone is at least honest about it.

I'm not saying we were at the same camp.........:D

If you were at an NCAAW camp in this corner of the country, then we probably were!:p

I wouldn't know
 

I've never dunked the basketball.

I have absolutely no idea what you need to do to steady yourself before dropping to the floor so that you don't get hurt on landing. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, especially when, as it the case here, she turned and went back on defense without so much as dirty look. She was well within the bounds of sporting conduct.

Given the propensity of women to ACL injuries, I hope nobody is in a hurry to whack a woman for steadying herself before dropping to the floor after a dunk. Sometimes the bending of the elbows, even in a pull-up fashion, seems to be an attempt to steady the body and distribute the weigh in order to hit the ground properly and not at some freakish angle that risks injury to ankle, knee or hip.

Layups count the same 2 points as dunks.

And is just as legal.

My point is that we shouldn't give any more leeway on a dunk *just because* women are at a greater risk of ACL injuries. Rather, maybe that's a reason to not try something that carries a greater risk of injury.