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-   -   NCAA Tournament Video Request Thread (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/89897-ncaa-tournament-video-request-thread.html)

Rich Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:03pm

NCAA Tournament Video Request Thread
 
I'd love to see comments on the foul called on Colorado State with 0.9 seconds left in the first half. I think the call was pretty obvious, but I think it's interesting that the L and C passed and the T made the call at the block, in transition, from about the division line.

JugglingReferee Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GROUPthink (Post 832041)
I'd love to see comments on the foul called on Colorado State with 0.9 seconds left in the first half. I think the call was pretty obvious, but I think it's interesting that the L and C passed and the T made the call at the block, in transition, from about the division line.

T moves to Sweet 16?

APG Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:22pm

Was quite surprised the call came from the trail...in a fastbreak scenario none the less. It was a CC though.

tref Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 832049)
Was quite surprised the call came from the trail...in a fastbreak scenario none the less. It was a CC though.

And at the end of the day that is what matters most! Good thing he didnt let em live & die with the INC :rolleyes:

Adam Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:35pm

NCAA Tournament Video Requests
 
Murray St, Colorado State, 17:00 2nd half. Injury and flagrant review. No flagrant was called.

truerookie Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:37pm

That was the right call!! He had the perfect look on the play.

Adam Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:39pm

Saw the call, and thought it was a great call. I wasn't paying enough attention to notice it was from the T.

Adam Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:40pm

Murray St, Colorado State, 17:00 2nd half. Injury and flagrant review. No flagrant was called.

Oh, and shut up.

truerookie Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 832061)
Saw the call, and thought it was a great call. I wasn't paying enough attention to notice it was from the T.

I agree and to address the potential flagrant. I thought that was a good no call. The defender was moving towards the ball handler as he begun the motion to pass to the corner.

26 Year Gap Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 832065)
Murray St, Colorado State, 17:00 2nd half. Injury and flagrant review. No flagrant was called.

Oh, and shut up.

Are you striking the squirrel pose?:D

Adam Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 832071)
Are you striking the squirrel pose?:D

I've got a MS set this afternoon; might have to use that line.

stiffler3492 Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:57pm

Oh boy. Murray State/Colorado State

Backcourt violation called by (I think) the C on a rebound backtap.

7:12 mark of the 2nd half.

Raymond Thu Mar 15, 2012 01:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GROUPthink (Post 832041)
I'd love to see comments on the foul called on Colorado State with 0.9 seconds left in the first half. I think the call was pretty obvious, but I think it's interesting that the L and C passed and the T made the call at the block, in transition, from about the division line.

Was Corbin the Trail?

VTOfficial Thu Mar 15, 2012 01:10pm

Louisville/Davidson
 
At around the 9:30 mark in the first half of the Louisville/Davidson game, was that not a travel right in front of the C? Seemed to me he did almost a complete rollover on the floor while holding the ball. Maybe he didn't have control of the ball when he started his roll? Anyone else see this?

icallfouls Thu Mar 15, 2012 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 832079)
Was Corbin the Trail?

Thought it was Mike Kitts :D

Welpe Thu Mar 15, 2012 01:13pm

Be late...?

Be needed...?

fullor30 Thu Mar 15, 2012 01:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 832086)
Be late...?

Be needed...?


HaHaHa!!

stiffler3492 Thu Mar 15, 2012 05:51pm

Harvard vs Vanderbilt
 
Travel, block, or charge? 1:24 left in the second half.

berserkBBK Thu Mar 15, 2012 06:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 832222)
Travel, block, or charge? 1:24 left in the second half.

Thanks. Watching it I went charge. Weird replay I thought could go either way, but would have went charge.

Thought lead had a quick whistle, but dropped his arm just as quickly.
C's all the way. Glad there was no blarge.

Adam Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:29am

TX/Cincy, about 15:20 or so, a jump stop followed by a pivot. Looked like a travel.

bainsey Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:45am

We could go on all day about uncalled travels we saw.

Perhaps I should shut up, as I have a 5-6 boys' tourney this weekend.

Adam Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 832389)
We could go on all day about uncalled travels we saw.

Perhaps I should shut up, as I have a 5-6 boys' tourney this weekend.

Yeah, there were several spin moves where the pivot looked like it might have moved.

APG Fri Mar 16, 2012 01:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 832404)
Yeah, there were several spin moves where the pivot looked like it might have moved.

The vast majority of spin moves executed in NCAA games are strictly traveling under NF/NCAA rules.

bainsey Fri Mar 16, 2012 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 832426)
The vast majority of spin moves executed in NCAA games are strictly traveling under NF/NCAA rules.

"But, but, it's such an athletic move!!"

APG Fri Mar 16, 2012 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 832427)
"But, but, it's such an athletic move!!"

A lot of times, the plays are close...I have no problem with passing on some of these plays as it would be guessing on some of them if a whistle was put on the play.

Adam Fri Mar 16, 2012 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 832426)
The vast majority of spin moves executed in NCAA games are strictly traveling under NF/NCAA rules.

Yep, and we're told to call it in our high school games.

tref Fri Mar 16, 2012 01:13pm

I think Snaqs identified the key to not putting a whistle on the vast majority of them:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 832404)
Yeah, there were several spin moves where the pivot looked like it might have moved.

Calling travels that needs 5 rewinds to justify, probably isnt a great travel call. JMO

Adam Fri Mar 16, 2012 01:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 832430)
I think Snaqs identified the key to not putting a whistle on the vast majority of them:



Calling travels that needs 5 rewinds to justify, probably isnt a great travel call. JMO

I agree, but I was being generous with "might." A couple were very clear; gather on the right foot, spin to the left foot, move the right foot into place, jump, shoot. The one I first noted wasn't a spin move. Jump stop. Gather on one foot, jump, land on both, pivot, shoot.

Raymond Fri Mar 16, 2012 02:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 832429)
Yep, and we're told to call it in our high school games.

I don't think travels are big on John Adams' radar while I think on the NCAA-W's side it has been emphasized the last few years.

CallMeMrRef Fri Mar 16, 2012 03:07pm

Problem was that there appeared to be 2 Cs and a Trail. no one was on the baseline and I think the T could recognize that and had to make the call.

JetMetFan Fri Mar 16, 2012 03:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 832457)
I don't think travels are big on John Adams' radar while I think on the NCAA-W's side it has been emphasized the last few years.

True. The folks on NCAAW side want us to get them. We received the following note from the home office before the '09-10 season regarding spin moves and it still holds (I added the bold):

Quote:

1. All spin moves are NOT traveling violations; illegal spin moves are traveling violations. When the word “automatic” was used at the officiating clinics, it was used analogous to two hands on the ball handler/dribbler. When a player stops her dribble with one foot on the court (pivot foot), she spins on the other foot and then puts the first/pivot foot back to the court – a traveling violation has occurred – it’s an automatic; it’s the rule!
2. As mentioned on the Officiating Instructional DVD, we don’t want to “guess” on an infraction; the benefit of any doubt goes to the player executing the move. However, officials mustn’t use this as an excuse for never calling an illegal move – having “doubt” on every play. Officials must work hard to find the pivot foot and determine what is being done with that pivot foot, in order to properly adjudicate the rule.
3. Coaches and players will make an adjustment (and some already have) in order to execute a legal move, in one of the following ways:
a. The player will keep her dribble longer;
b. She will end the dribble with both feet in contact with the court, therefore permitting her to establish either foot as the pivot – then likely performing a step-through move; or
c. She will NOT put the pivot foot back down and will go up to shoot/pass off of one foot.
Situation 3c is the one we see way more than NCAAM will. Women will take that shot after a spin with their pivot foot in the air because they know they'll get called for a the travel if it comes down. I don't think men's players are as worried about that situation.

Nevadaref Fri Mar 16, 2012 05:59pm

Two plays from Norfolk State/Missouri.
Ten seconds left Norfolk end line throw-in. Did the thrower get in or violate on the return pass. Hightower was covering official and standing well into the court. Despite that positioning I believe that the correct call was made.
Play 2: final time-out with about 3 seconds after missed FTs by Norfolk. Where is the correct throw-in spot? Crew went sideline. I believe end line was proper.

APG Fri Mar 16, 2012 06:04pm

I believe the throw-in play was correct...but that Hightower was lucky to get the call correct. That positioning was a prime example of what not to do.

Johnny Ringo Fri Mar 16, 2012 07:01pm

IMO the ball was still in the paint when the official signaled for the TO. The ball should have went to the end line.

APG Fri Mar 16, 2012 07:03pm

I already put the video of the throw-in in the appropriate thread and same with the other throw-in play Nevada requested.

Raymond Fri Mar 16, 2012 08:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 832490)
I believe the throw-in play was correct...but that Hightower was lucky to get the call correct. That positioning was a prime example of what not to do.

That's the mechanic that most drives me crazy by some of those old-time legends (Burr/Hightower/Tim Higgins). Can lead to so many problems.

Johnny Ringo Fri Mar 16, 2012 09:24pm

Another play: St. Mary's player commits a violation near the end of the game. He moved too much on a throw-in where he was not allowed to move.

The official's signal was a travel! Someone tell me this is not correct... Isn't this simply a violation and point at the spot?

Video would be great if you can get it.

stiffler3492 Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 832522)
Another play: St. Mary's player commits a violation near the end of the game. He moved too much on a throw-in where he was not allowed to move.

The official's signal was a travel! Someone tell me this is not correct... Isn't this simply a violation and point at the spot?

Video would be great if you can get it.

Along this line....

2:16 of the first half, Purdue with a spot throw in in their frontcourt. Looked like the inbounder may have moved outside of the three foot window. No call made.

stiffler3492 Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:11pm

Also, last couple of minutes of the first half of Notre Dame/Xavier, there was some sort of flailing spin move by a Xavier player in his backcourt...looked like a travel.

stiffler3492 Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:37pm

Another...South Florida/Temple

About the 12:35 mark of the second half, possible basket interference.

stiffler3492 Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:38pm

We oughta pitch in and buy you a case of whatever you want APG!

David B Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:25pm

Notre Dame and Xavier
 
Ok need to see video of this one at end of the game. On my DVR the ball released before anyone was in the lane, but is the rule when it hits the basket as in HS or when the ball is released? Announcers as usual don't know what they are talking about.

Thanks
David

APG Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B (Post 832539)
Ok need to see video of this one at end of the game. On my DVR the ball released before anyone was in the lane, but is the rule when it hits the basket as in HS or when the ball is released? Announcers as usual don't know what they are talking about.

Thanks
David

Only players in marked lane spaces can enter in on the release. Everyone else (except the shooter) is on the rim, flange, or backboard.

stiffler3492 Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:28pm

#22 in white crossed the three point line well before the ball hit the rim. Same thing happened in the Syracuse game last night.

David B Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 832541)
Only players in marked lane spaces can enter in on the release. Everyone else (except the shooter) is on the rim, flange, or backboard.


Thanks, that is what i thought, but wanted to make sure. Great call and gutsy to make that call!!!

Announcers are killing me with their comments!

Thanks
David

Nevadaref Sat Mar 17, 2012 03:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 832522)
Another play: St. Mary's player commits a violation near the end of the game. He moved too much on a throw-in where he was not allowed to move.

The official's signal was a travel! Someone tell me this is not correct... Isn't this simply a violation and point at the spot?

Video would be great if you can get it.

The player was the WCC POY. The official was Scott Thornley and he did give the travel signal. Shoot them both!

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 832536)
We oughta pitch in and buy you a case of whatever you want APG!

I fully agree with that. If APG sends me a PM, I'll send him some funds. Not kidding!

Nevadaref Sat Mar 17, 2012 04:40am

APG,
Please post the throw-in/OOB violation called in the last couple of seconds of the Creighton/Bama game.

APG Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 832619)
APG,
Please post the throw-in/OOB violation called in the last couple of seconds of the Creighton/Bama game.

I'd need to know when it occurred.

APG Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 832528)
Along this line....

2:16 of the first half, Purdue with a spot throw in in their frontcourt. Looked like the inbounder may have moved outside of the three foot window. No call made.

St. Marys had a throw-in at that time...and the player didn't move a bit...at least from what they showed. They didn't show the beginning of the throw-in.

Johnny Ringo Sat Mar 17, 2012 04:53pm

Two plays that would be good to see:

1) 8:20 to go in 1st half of Murray St./Marquette... Would any of you went with offensive foul?

2) Florida St. / St. Bonaventure... 11:10 to go in second half. Player passes the ball to himself - nothing was called.

stiffler3492 Sat Mar 17, 2012 05:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 832673)
St. Marys had a throw-in at that time...and the player didn't move a bit...at least from what they showed. They didn't show the beginning of the throw-in.

Hmm...i'll try and remember it

stiffler3492 Sat Mar 17, 2012 05:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 832673)
St. Marys had a throw-in at that time...and the player didn't move a bit...at least from what they showed. They didn't show the beginning of the throw-in.

Maybe try the second half?

JetMetFan Sat Mar 17, 2012 05:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 832714)

Florida St. / St. Bonaventure... 11:10 to go in second half. Player passes the ball to himself - nothing was called.

Here it is...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1KD4v4PbFqU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

grunewar Sat Mar 17, 2012 07:01pm

~2:50 left in first half - interesting Flagrant 1 called on Indiana for swinging the elbows by the offense and hitting a defender in the face. Long delay. Tom Eades got lots of air/face time.

Johnny Ringo Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:01pm

Would you call that play a violation? Double dribble?

Camron Rust Sun Mar 18, 2012 02:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 832762)
Would you call that play a violation? Double dribble?

Assuming it didn't touch his teammate on the way by, yes...illegal dribble.

icallfouls Sun Mar 18, 2012 06:40pm

this thread is not all that convenient. have to read through most every post to determine if the play makes it to the site.

Suggestion: the threads be broken down by game rather than all possible games.

I am sure that there is a reason for the way it is currently done, but for people who don't have the time or inclination to read every post, it would be appreciated

Thanks for everyone who suggests plays for discussion

APG Sun Mar 18, 2012 09:30pm

I tend to take all the plays from a game, and make a thread of it..if there's a play you'd like to see and it isn't in the thread, feel free to mention it in the thread.

Eastshire Mon Mar 19, 2012 06:51am

APG: Could you grab from Ohio State v Gonzaga the OOB call with ~0:45 left in the second? It looked to me that Ohio State reestablished before touching the ball.

stiffler3492 Thu Mar 22, 2012 08:00pm

First one of the Sweet 16...

Syracuse vs Wisconsin.
Block/Charge play at the 3:50 mark of the second half.

Nevadaref Thu Mar 22, 2012 08:48pm

Block/charge call with 2:05 left in 2nd half leading to correctable error FT situation in Louisville/Mich St.

Raymond Sat Mar 24, 2012 05:24pm

UF/Louisville
 
APG (or anybody else with his skills), the sequence that results with UF shooting free-throws at the 6:23 mark of the 2nd half.

Maybe or maybe not a BC violation. Definitely don't agree with the block call by Hess.

canuckrefguy Sat Mar 24, 2012 05:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 834086)
APG (or anybody else with his skills), the sequence that results with UF shooting free-throws at the 6:23 mark of the 2nd half.

Maybe or maybe not a BC violation. Definitely don't agree with the block call by Hess.

Passed on the initial foul by defender and BC violation - called it a saw-off. Then had no choice but to call something on second contact - but doesn't want to reward defender for initiating the whole sequence.

Should have called the first bump that caused the BC violation.

Tough one, but I completely understand why Hess did what he did.

eyezen Sat Mar 24, 2012 06:28pm

13:06 1s half SYR/OSU

Did I see this correctly?

I think #32 OSU comes out of the game after a foul and before the first of two and then it appears coach changes mind and sends him to table to sub back and returns after the first free throw.

Or did I miss a play in between?

WhistlesAndStripes Sat Mar 24, 2012 06:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyezen (Post 834092)
13:06 1s half SYR/OSU

Did I see this correctly?

I think #32 OSU comes out of the game after a foul and before the first of two and then it appears coach changes mind and sends him to table to sub back and returns after the first free throw.

Or did I miss a play in between?

You missed it entirely. That was Smith Jr. for OSU, who had left the game a few minutes earlier after taking an inadvertent blow to the head. He had gone to the locker room. WHat you saw on TV was him returning to the bench and sitting down, then immediately getting back up to re-enter the game.

eyezen Sat Mar 24, 2012 06:38pm

Thanks, thats what i get for being on a laptop and not paying attention.

I saw foul, looked down, looked up, saw player sit down and returned. Just assumed it was same guy. thanks for the clarification.

stiffler3492 Sat Mar 24, 2012 06:47pm

Block/Charge call with around 6:00 min left in the first half or Syracuse/Ohio State.

Boeheim was rung up. Saw one replay, disagree with the PC foul.

ILRef80 Sat Mar 24, 2012 07:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 834095)
Block/Charge call with around 6:00 min left in the first half or Syracuse/Ohio State.

Boeheim was rung up. Saw one replay, disagree with the PC foul.


Same. I thought the defender moved to the spot after the shooter became airborne. Block.

dahoopref Thu Apr 05, 2012 06:05pm

Kentucky vs Louisville 3/31/12
 
2:30 left, 2nd half.

#20 white, drive on the C side.

Block/Charge crash with #10 red; no-call.

Followed by a white rebound with a +1 foul shot.

Camron Rust Thu Apr 05, 2012 06:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 835946)
2:30 left, 2nd half.

#20 white, drive on the C side.

Block/Charge crash with #10 red; no-call.

Followed by a white rebound with a +1 foul shot.

Yep, that was definitely a missed call. Substantial contact involving a shooter, 2 players went down. Gotta have something on that one.


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