I have a few questions for the NCAA refs
 

I don't call at the NCAA level so I don't know what is taught at that level.

1. I've noticed that on screens there seems to be a consensus among the officials to allow for the screener to move his hips into the player being screened. At least in the recent games I've seen.

2. I've seen some officials use a mechanic that I dislike and that I tell younger officials to avoid developing the habit. On a block shot they clamp their hands together similar to the gator chomp but obviously not as dramatic. I have always seen this done by the lead. I tell younger officials to avoid this because if the lead believes there is no foul but the trail sees contact and decides to call it, it doesn't look good having two officials with two different calls. Of course, this is when the T should be calling fouls in the leads primary, for example on rebounding action or a drive to the basket from their primary. Am I wrong to dislike this mechanic? Is it taught at the NCAA level?

1. I know of no such allowances on screens. In my experiences, I've found that NCAA refs call a lot more illegal screen than HS officials.

2. I don't like the mechanic when in the heat of the play. I've seen officials who do it. I attended a D1 game once where the C did the mechanic but the T had a whistle for a foul. I only use it after the play to communicate long distance to a coach as to why I had no foul call.

Regarding #2: Most of my supervisors/assignors say don't do it because if another whistle comes from somewhere it creates all sorts of problems. I was always told if a kid blocks a shot and I don't do anything, that tells everyone in the gym the play was legal. Some people still do it because they can't break the habit.

I'll duck #1 since I'm NCAAW and this sounds like an NCAAM sort of question. NCAAW are, IMO, a bit more stringent on screens because that game is played below the rim, so screens in general have a bigger effect.

1. I think they tend to get the ones that matter most & talk em out of the marginal illegal screens.

2. I dont think of the gator chomp as a "mechanic" IMO its more of a signal to communicate with coaches/players non-verbally. I use it at any level I work to defuse pushback, but only AFTER the play is complete.

I'm guessing that this 'signal' is delayed by lead and after smoke clears, no whistles, he's good to go. At D1 you're obviously at a top level and partners know this and can work in sync.

It's a gasoline can near a fire for high school, there is no need what so ever to do this and can only lead to trouble. I haven't seen it much in my games, but it does crop up in kids games from less experienced officials.

To tag onto your OP, what is the 'signal' I've seen on a close play, typically by lead again I believe, where it appears to be a variation of a stop sign as official doesn't want to hear any commentary on a passed call?

I don't like it. No offense intended, but I believe it is a mechanic used to tell the fans and coaches to get off my back, it was a blocked shot and not a foul. The problem is when your partner calls a foul. Also, you don't know when the play is truly complete because your partner may be having a patient whistle and come a little late to get the foul. The fact that you did not call a foul tells everyone in the gym you thought it was a blocked shot. No need for this mechanic. It adds no additional information and it will likely one day cause you some grief because of your partner calling a foul. It probably hasn't happened yet, but there's a chance it will in the future.

1. I am with BNR on this one. I see more calls in NCAA games than I do in HS period, not just on illegal screens.

2. I have used it and do not use it immediately during a blocked shot. I use it to sell a held ball or when we are going in the other direction. It is rarely used by me, but I do use it on some level.

Peace

If it isn't done until the ball is going the other way there's really no chance of a patient whistle coming in and creating an issue.

I will file that one away in the library. Thanks!

Timing is important in using the signal...for the most part, you don't see officials using the signal right as the action is finishing...there's usually a delay to accommodate for the fact that there might be a whistle from someone's secondary. Of course, if your partner(s) come in any later than that, there's gonna be an issue anyhow with the opposing coach.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the signal when used correctly. It's just another means of giving additional information that can help with coaches/players.

Hey,

This screen name is not authorized!

This does not occur around here. :)

Yeah, I thought I stressed "after the play was complete."
I guess the people who dont like it either communicate verbally during live balls or ignore coaches. The people I work for dont condone either.

1. it happens and your observation has some truth to it.

2. i agree its bad and should not be used. Everyone in the gym seen what happened. If a question arises from a coach a simple " it was a clean block" is sufficient.

If everyone in the gym saw it, why is there still a question?

During a live ball? Suppose coach is asking the old L, new T, who happens to be opposite table?

This particular play may still cause for questioning when there is contact after the block and the coach may want a foul.

If the old L had a look he/she may answer as long as he/she maintain positive eye contact on the player while transitioning.

new T which is the old L. Should not have a whistle unless the contact is below the shoulders.

Any coach worth his salt will know that rotation will bring the official to whom he wants to speak next to him very shortly and he will ask his question or make his point with that official at that time.

I don't like it, but it's because the partners I see using it do it during the play. They do it on plays in my primary.

I'm lead, shot goes up in our joint area towards the top of the lane, and the T (2 whistle) is giving the tip signal before the ball even hits the floor on a blocked shot. I've got no problem with it being used afterwards, by people who have a better sense of timing due to experience.

Really? So if the Lead sees B1 elbow contacting A1's head while B1 is blocking the shot he's supposed to ignore it?

Really!! T or C should be aggressive in ensuring they catch that level of contact.

From your question, you believe the L is justified in calling a push from behind too.

A push from behind isnt in the same category as a shot to the dome.

If he's worked to get a good angle (which is possible on many such fouls), then yes. If he's straight lined; no.

True, but I think C/T get first crack at it.

With three, yep.

Why not? A shot to the dome can occur from behind as well as from the front. The lead to call that too? My point is if that level of contact occurred the T or C should be aggressive in getting it instead of the lead.

Nobody said they shouldn't. We're addressing Mr. GroupThink's assertion that the Lead can't call any contact above the shoulders.

What level of contact? I didn't say it was severe. I said an elbow clips the shooter's head during a blocked shot. There plenty of play scenarios where the T or C might not see contact to the head depending on the positioning of the players involved.

I fail to see the correlation between my question and this assertion. Maybe you could enlighten me since I'm not part of your particular GroupThink Tank.

You did
 

But I didn't understand it to mean when the ball is going the other way. If there is definitely no way that another official may whistle a foul on the play, then my main objection to it is irrelevant. However, at the high school level I see it more right after a shot is blocked. There is still a potential for a whistle. I guess its just one of those things we can disagree on. I don't like it and don't want younger officials getting into the habit. I guess you can argue that you are providing more information. You are saying you saw it and judged it was not a foul. However, my argument is that not calling the foul says the same thing.

One other thing
 

I'm not condoning not addressing a coach. The times I see it the coach isn't yelling at the official. Now to be fair most of the time I'm seeing this is at a middle school or high school rec game. Although, one of the officials using it is a good young HS official. I'm just trying to get him out of the habit.

lol, first of all, I have stated the T or C should be aggressive with contact above the shoulders and the L should worry about contact below the shoulders.

Second, if there is a shot to the dome, IMO, the T or C should grab it. That's play at or above the rim.

Third, If the T or C cannot see the contact to the head depending on their positioning (they elect not to move to continue to see between the players).

Finally, who appointed me CEO of GroupThink Tank? :p

I understand your point rwest. I didn't say "going the other way" because "after the play completes" is more accurate as we can have an offensive rebound that gets kicked back out to begin a new play on the same end.
I used to have that mindset, but what I noticed is that the great communicators of the game are generally the most successful.

Let me ask you this:
Are you offering the information without being asked? Or are you using the signal only on plays where the coach starts questioning a no-call?

Snaqs I've been taught not to trouble trouble.

Okay, that's my philosophy, too. I've never had anything but trouble from offering information that wasn't requested. That's my main issue with this "signal," though, is that when I see it used, it's offered both too quickly and without any request for information.

+10000

Concur, I usually see it in lower level games & in the off-season. But they dont usually use the "gator chomp" its usually the communication tool for a tipped ball at the moment the blocked shot occurs... and thats when I come over the top with a foul. j/k :D

I work the Women's side and concur with the above...

I have worked with a partner who does the "gator chomp" mechanic about 15 times per game and I never use it once.. I think that is kind of strange.

Had a chance to use it last night in a ms game. Coach never asked why there wasn't a foul, though, so I didn't bother.

Gator Chop......
 

Used it a lot when I ws in hs school and I thought I was somebody.....further I moves up the ladder (DII &DIII) it has dissapeared. Why stick out and use an unauthorized mechanic, especially if you are with that guy who calls every 50/50 that you pass on. We all know who that guy is our leagues

Hey, it needed calling. He got slapped on the wrist on his way by. They might need those free throws later.