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-   -   T for Fan Throwing Bottle on the Court (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/89811-t-fan-throwing-bottle-court.html)

YooperRef Thu Mar 08, 2012 05:29pm
T for Fan Throwing Bottle on the Court
 
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I thought this was interesting and was curious about anyone else's thoughts. A fan of the losing team threw a bottle on the court resulting in a T for the losing team. I've been kicking it around and decided if I was certain who the offender was the T was justified. Tough break for the losing team though.

rpirtle Thu Mar 08, 2012 05:34pm
I would simply have the Game Administrator escort the young man out...and play on.

bainsey Thu Mar 08, 2012 05:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpirtle (Post 830908)
I would simply have the Game Administrator escort the young man out...and play on.
Agreed. This is where discretion of 2-8-1 comes into play.

Nevadaref Thu Mar 08, 2012 06:24pm
A vote for the whack.
At the HS level there is no excuse for throwing anything onto the court.

APG Thu Mar 08, 2012 06:31pm
Toss the fan...play on with no T.

Mark Padgett Thu Mar 08, 2012 06:32pm
Punishing a team for something a fan does is really taking a chance. I wonder if there's ever been a fan with more than half a brain who did something like this on purpose, hoping to get a team punished, but it was not his team?

Adam Thu Mar 08, 2012 06:40pm
I'll warn the coach before I T, but I'm not feeling sorry for anyone who gets popped because of stupid fans.

BillyMac Thu Mar 08, 2012 06:57pm
Hey Coach, Cut This ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 830917)
Punishing a team for something a fan does is really taking a chance. I wonder if there's ever been a fan with more than half a brain who did something like this on purpose, hoping to get a team punished, but it was not his team?
How about the kid who just got cut from the varsity team? Or this kid's cousin, who is a fan of the opposing team?

Nevadaref Thu Mar 08, 2012 07:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 830921)
How about the kid who just got cut from the varsity team? Or this kid's cousin, who is a fan of the opposing team?
Don't bring in other factors which aren't relevant.
The topic is that a team follower throws a bottle onto the court. The individual is clearly identified and it is known with which team the person is associated. The NFHS rules book clearly gives the officials the ability to penalize such action which interferes with the contest with a technical foul. Obviously, discretion must be used.

2-8-1
The officials shall:
ART. 1 . . .
Penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team
attendant or follower.

NOTE:
The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior,
insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may rule
fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper
conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in ruling such fouls, however, lest a team
be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly
progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management
resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner. In the absence of
a designated school representative, the home coach shall serve as the host management.

zm1283 Thu Mar 08, 2012 07:13pm
I saw the officials in a college game on TV this year give a T for things being thrown on the court. Almost positive it was the St. Mary's/BYU game at BYU.

Nevadaref Thu Mar 08, 2012 07:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 830924)
I saw the officials in a college game on TV this year give a T for things being thrown on the court. Almost positive it was the St. Mary's/BYU game at BYU.
Correct. They also issued a warning the first time and then charged the T on the second offense. Of course, HS and college are very different.

Mark Padgett Thu Mar 08, 2012 07:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 830923)
Don't bring in other factors which aren't relevant. The topic is that a team follower throws a bottle onto the court. The individual is clearly identified and it is known with which team the person is associated.
My point was that the "team follower" might be a ringer. Remember, anyone can sit anywhere. Imagine a situation in which the kid actually is a ringer and causes a T to be called on the "other" team in a high profile game situation.

OK - would this really happen? I'm guessing the odds are about a million to one, but hey - wouldn't it be quite a story if it ever did.

BillyMac Thu Mar 08, 2012 08:44pm
Hey, It Could Happen ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 830921)
How about the kid who just got cut from the varsity team? Or this kid's cousin, who is a fan of the opposing team?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 830923)
Don't bring in other factors which aren't relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 830931)
My point was that the "team follower" might be a ringer. Remember, anyone can sit anywhere. Imagine a situation in which the kid actually is a ringer and causes a T to be called on the "other" team in a high profile game situation. OK - would this really happen? I'm guessing the odds are about a million to one, but hey - wouldn't it be quite a story if it ever did.
How about the players who dunk twice in pregame because they hate their coach? Is it an urban myth, or did it really happen?

YooperRef Thu Mar 08, 2012 09:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 830931)
My point was that the "team follower" might be a ringer. Remember, anyone can sit anywhere. Imagine a situation in which the kid actually is a ringer and causes a T to be called on the "other" team in a high profile game situation.

OK - would this really happen? I'm guessing the odds are about a million to one, but hey - wouldn't it be quite a story if it ever did.
I considered the "ringer" theory also, which is why I would have to be certain who threw the bottle. In the case in the article would it make any difference if the bottle was thrown into the BC where no players or officials are as opposed to the FC where it would be more dangerous?

Raymond Thu Mar 08, 2012 09:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 830923)
Don't bring in other factors which aren't relevant.
The topic is that a team follower throws a bottle onto the court. The individual is clearly identified and it is known with which team the person is associated. The NFHS rules book clearly gives the officials the ability to penalize such action which interferes with the contest with a technical foul. Obviously, discretion must be used.

2-8-1
The officials shall:
ART. 1 . . .
Penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team
attendant or follower.

NOTE:
The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior,
insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may rule
fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper
conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in ruling such fouls, however, lest a team
be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly
progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management
resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner. In the absence of
a designated school representative, the home coach shall serve as the host management.
Here, I changed some of the emphasis for you. A fan from out of the blue with no prior indication of poor behavior throws a bottle and the team is penalized. :( What reasonable expectation did game admin have to prevent that from happening? :confused:

SamIAm Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 830951)
Here, I changed some of the emphasis for you. I fan from out of the blue with no prior indication of poor behavior throws a bottle and the team is penalized. :( What reasonable expectation did game admin have to prevent that from happening? :confused:
Only penalize the known bottle-throwers?
Your suggestion is little better-
Fan1 says "I threw a bottle last week, It is your turn this week." to fan2.

Raymond Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIAm (Post 830953)
Only penalize the known bottle-throwers?
Your suggestion is little better-
Fan1 says "I threw a bottle last week, It is your turn this week." to fan2.
Penalize the bottle-thrower, not the team.

Adam Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 830958)
Penalize the bottle-thrower, not the team.
Yep, and next week they can penalize whoever the bottle thrower is. If one school keeps having this at their games, the state can recognize and deal with the pattern.

BillyMac Fri Mar 09, 2012 05:52am
Rational Interpretation ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 830958)
Penalize the bottle-thrower, not the team.
Amen


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