Interesting finish to a state tournament game
 

I think there is more to this story than is printed here. I will try and find more. One story I heard indicated one of the teams realized the player had fouled out. That means the bench officials didn't notice?

I sure as hell hope someone writes a story with better facts and explanations than what I just read. :eek:

See, ref3808, this is why I don't trust a reporter's accounting of officiating decisions made in a game. ;)

You mean facts which include whether the head coach of the offending team was notified his player fouled out? Yeah, that would be nice.

What exactly are "bench officials" anyway? :)

I find this to be interesting! Whats the T for if the table didnt notify officials that the player fouled out?

If they were notified why did they shoot 2 FTS while the player was still on the court?

:confused:

Was appropriate procedures followed on DQ'ed players?

Where is Anderson Cooper when you need him?

OR

Jane Velez Mitchell

Why does so much of this weird crap seem to come up during State Tournament games? Is it just because the games get more media attention during the tournaments, or are there really more odd situations happening in games when you would expect the best crews in the individual state to be working the games?

Rocky,

I will take #2 for $100 please. :)

I'll take #1. All these games have credentialed media in attendance and more fans than normal.

These same situations are not newsworthy on January 20th when 6-9 Buelah-Buelah is playing 9-4 GoGo HS.

Not according to the wife of the assistant coach of Buelah-Buelah's JV girls team. That one call cost them their life's dreams.

MFL/Mar-Mac survives controversial finish to top Sioux Center, 73-72 | Iowa Prep Sports

Here is another story concerning the game but I didn't see where it addressed how people came to the realization that the kid fouled out but hadn't left the game.

Just for kicks...
 

I e-mailed the reporter who wrote the article for the Des Moines Register. Here's what he had to say:

"Lots of speculation about who knew what and when. But my understanding is this from talking to the coach and officials: I believe the team bench was informed of the player's fifth foul. There were two Sioux Center players checking in at the scorer's bench, one of them with the express purpose of replacing the fouled out player.

The players checked in and two players came out, but the disqualified player was not one of them.

For the record, the Sioux Center coach never suggested to me that the game officials or bench officials were at fault.

Hope that clears things up. I think it was just a lot going on for the kids/coaches at the end of an exciting, close tournament game."

If that's the case, the officials should have ensured the DQd player left the game.

OK, now this version would make some sense. But now the question, whose responsibility is it to ensure the DQ'd player leaves the court if the coach provides a sub?

Per 10-5 I say it lies with the coach:

ART. 3

The head coach shall not permit a team member to participate after being removed from the game for disqualification.

Since the player becomes bench personnel after the HC is notified the HC is at fault for allowing a team member to participate. But it's still a situation where the officials need to be diligent in ensuring it doesn't happen.

Took the words right out of my mouth BadNewsRef!
For a minute I thought that a State Tournament table crew missed notifying the officials of a player earning his fifth foul.
Question-If the official scorer notices that a disqualified player remains on the floor after officials have notified the HC can they ask their timer to hit the horn and notify the nearest available official as a matter of preventative officiating?

This play was 100% preventable. How can the officials let two replacements into the game and not ensure that one of them is for the disqualified player?

That was my thought when the reporter gave me his account. According to the officials' manual the person administering the DQ bears most of the responsibility but all three should know.

My mentors idiot-proofed the procedure for us a long time ago:

*Tell partner(s)
*Tell player
*Tell head coach
*Start timer
*Make the head coach replace the DQed player first, then bring in any other subs who were already at the table when the DQ took place

Basically, do anything possible to make sure we don't have to call a T.

They lost focus, but it seems they dealt with it correctly after that. Just like a six-players T, only far less likely.

2-8-4: Notify the head coach and request the timer to begin the replacement interval, and then notify the player on a disqualification.

Sorry, got them reversed. Though in an ideal situation I'd like the kid notified - by my partner - at the same time as the coach just so the player is heading in the right direction, i.e., their bench.

Technically the non-calling official is responsible for DQ'ed procedures. Not the calling official. According to the officials manual.

This is what I get for posting in the middle of the night...
 

One of these posts I'll get it right on paper/my computer screen :mad:. I meant my partner and I changed it in the original.

One thing I am sure of is I've found the responsibility of notifying the coach/player tends to be split. I've done it and I've had a lot of partners as well who, if they're the lucky one to call the fifth foul under NFHS rules, end up telling the coach the kid has fouled out right after they report the foul. It's all a matter of whether the coach is losing his/her mind with the call.

I do about 2/3 of my games under NCAAW mechanics between college and NYS Girls' H.S. so I end up in front of the table more often than not when I call a foul and always after I call a shooting foul so I'll end up telling the coach about a DQ instead of my partner.

JMF,

I got what you are saying. I believe even in at the NCAA level manual the non-calling official handles the DQ'ed procedure. Yes, its more convenient for official who is already table side to perform those duties.

Technically or not, I can't remember the last time a partner notified a coach on a disqualifying foul I called...or vice versa. I'm there reporting, I'm going straight to the coach. Would I alter this if the coach is losing his mind? Maybe.

Where is this located? Seems to me this is never the case.

I was not there, but here is my understanding of how this situation went down. This information has been compiled through conversations with people who had conversations with people who had conversations with people that were there. In other words, I would love to see some video on this.

A player committed his 5th foul. The bench informed the officials, the officials informed the head coach and the player. There were already substitutes waiting at the bench to enter the game. When the stubstitutes were brought into the game, the disqualified player did not leave, although other players on his team did. There were two free throws shot, with a rebound on the second free throw before an official noticed the disqualified player was still in the game. He killed the play, they conferenced as a crew, and assessed the techinical foul.

Personally, I think everyone here could have done a better job of managing this situation. When the scorer put in the substitutes, they could have alerted the crew to the fact that the DQ'd player was still on the floor. The officials could have paused before the free throw and realized the DQ's player was still on the floor. Ultimately, and I'm of course a little biased toward the crew, the players and coaches should have made sure the correct player was substituted for. All in all, a bad situation to end a game, but once it happened, they did the correct thing in assessting the technical foul.

Anyway, that's my understanding of the events, from my conversations over the last day or so.

I will locate it for you. You are correct it is not the case.

Toren,

I was partially correct.

In 2 person the non-calling official will handle DQ'ed procedures. That information can be located on page 37 under Disqualification Procedures in the officials manual.

In 3 person the table side (Trail or Center) will handle DQ'ed procedures. That information can be located on page 75 under Disqualification Procedures in the officials manual.

A little different us IAABO folks...
Toren pg 55 (2 person) & 136 (3 person)

Ok, didn't know IAABO was in the house..;)

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the name "MFL/Mar-Mac."

I actually googled/wiki'd it to see if there was any history behind the name. Didn't find anything on my initial search.

From this site...

MFL Mar Mac Home Page

MFL MarMac is ... comprised of the communities of Monona, Farmersburg, Luana, Marquette and McGregor.

It's an Iowa school. You know this one, Snaqs?

That's Five On Number Twenty-Two Coach ...
 

Sounds like my pregame. Thirty-one years and I've never shied away from telling the coach, as the calling offcial, that his player fouled out. But there's always a first time.

And I always cover it in my pregame. If nothing much is happening, then the calling official can notify the coach of the five fouls. If the emotion requires something else, come to me and I will notify the coach.

I've heard of the towns. In Iowa, as the small towns started consolidating schools, they started getting creative with names as the schools encompassed more than two or three towns. The towns. Initially, you'd see just two town names hyphenated. Or you'd see acronyms such as "NESCO" (North East Story COunty.). Then, some of the hyphenated schools would start combining.

My favorite was BCLUW-GMG.

What about CMB? :D

I started the playoffs this year with CMB@PCM this season....

I actually know people who went there. Isn't that near Marshalltown?

Down In the Boondooks ...
 

Two regional high schools in our area:

Wamogo High school covers the hamlets of Warren, Morris, and Goshen

Rham High School covers the villages of Hebron, Andover, and Marlborough.

BCL-UW-GMG is about 20 minutes north of Marshalltown. Initials galore in Iowa schools anymore. Football season is even more interesting with more of the smaller schools sharing programs. And then there is OABCIG (I think I have that spelled correctly.)

Good lord, I find that silly. Isn't there something or someone else notable that deserves a school named after them?

We've all seen consolidations; there were two in this area in the past year. I can think of three schools in this state that took names from two towns that consolidated long ago (Town 1 - Town 2 High School). I can't imagine trying to fit in more than two towns, though.

BCLUW plays AGWSR as these two schools are in the same conference. We also have a school in Iowa named Interstate 35. They are the Roadrunners.

If memory serves 20 years ago it was just BCLUW ?

It was, that was about the time they shared just a few sports, IIRC. I know my school started with football and wrestling before sharing all sports. All academics and non-athletic activities are still separate.

They tend to go with initials so the towns maintain some sense of identity. Small school state tournament time is really an alphabet soup in all the sports.

Awe, memories. My first varsity game was North Polk @ CMB.

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about I-35, about an hour south of Des Moines.

Just don't have a combo school called MILF

I had OABCIG@JSPC for football a couple of years ago. :D

My own former high school in North Iowa went from M-T to SC-MT. A couple of years ago they added RS, but in a moment of clarity, threw out all the initials and they are now West Fork.

Are you kidding me? I'd attend that!

Meanwhile, high schools in Maine are consolidating with new names. Two consolidations in the last year, including my old school, Georges Valley, which combined with Rockland to make Oceanside High School.

I still don't care for the name. It sounds like a place you'd find Zack and Screech.

(The other one: Jay and Livermore Falls combining to make Spruce Mountain.)

Bingo
 

I had this game in Conrad (the C in BCLUW) this year.

FWIW: Beaman-Conrad-Liscomb-Union-Whitten and Ackley-Geneva-Wellsburg-Steamboat Rock. Ackley has about 1800 people. All the rest of the 8 towns combined might make that total. Maybe.

Plenty of heroic police, firefighters, service, men and women who gave up their lives to name schools after rather than an alphabet soup mess.