Video request - another block/charge
 

SoCon Final, Davidson/Western Carolina, 9:27 left in the second half. Anyone have this?

I'll have it up later tonight if it isn't already posted by then.

It was extremely close but it should've been a PC. Sorry I can't post video but I had to go frame by frame on what I saw to determine the call.

I'm actually shocked Valentine didn't jump in and call it. He actually had a perfect view from the T.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ewg5VFu5pUw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I like the block

Every day of the week & twice on Sundays.

B1 has LGP before A1 leaves the floor, so I think PC is the correct call. That said, from the L's vantqage point it probably did look like a block because B1 comes in from the side.

Tell me what I'm missing here, guys:

2 feet down in front of the ball handler, contact in the torso. Looks like the defender established LGP before the shooter went airborne.

I'll admit this is very, very close -- I watched it a number of times on my DVR before thinking "this would be a good play for the forum."

Rich, in my opinion the left foot of the defender is still sliding to the right & his body moves slightly right when the contact occurs.

The endline angle is the best look.

Charge
 

At :20 secs... Looks like defender obtains LGP while A1 is two steps away. Then the defender moves laterally and contact is in the chest.

+1 very close, I have PC from what I see.

I'd go PC on this...

here's my philosophy: "a block is a block, a charge is a charge, and everything else is a charge".

translation: the obvious blocking fouls are blocks, the obvious charges should be called a charge, and everything else in between those two - are charges.

officials default to a blocking foul WAY too much, imho.

I'd rather apply consistent principles than default to anything. I could see this one going either way, especially having to do so in real time.

Not sure what else the defender could have done better.....LGP is there...I would have liked an offensive foul there but close enough where a block is acceptable.

Was there a similar 50/50 play that was called a block earlier in the game?

[QUOTE=tref;830422]Rich, in my opinion the left foot of the defender is still sliding to the right & his body moves slightly right when the contact occurs.



What does left foot moving have to do with anything? He's established. Of course he moves when there is contact???

Just maybe . . .
 

It's a running jumpshot, with the shooter's right foot leaving the playing surface before the left. From the Lead's position, he sees the right foot off the floor, and judges that he's in the air. Hence, the block call.
But, with our other angles, and slow motion, we see that the shooter is not actually in the air until after the defender has LGP. Thus, PC.

fullor30, In my opinion this 2ndary defender sliding in from the left side never had LGP. Even if he did, in your opinion, he may move to maintain LGP but not into the path of the shooter. That's just the way I see this play, especially from the endline angle.

Correction tref, the defender CAN move into the path of the shooter if that shooter has not become airborne (sorry I don't have rule ref handy). This defender does slide into LGP during the shooters shooting motion, but is there before shooter leaves the floor.

True, after obtaining LGP the defender may move to maintain it & can slide into the path provided they get there first.
In my opinion he never got LGP because his left foot was still sliding to the right trying to obtain LGP.

CHARGE IT!!!

MTD, Sr.

P.S. I would have expected MTD, Jr., to be making that PC call from the L position by the end of the second game of his career.

Charge....very close...but still a charge.

You're exaggerating. This was an extremely close call and the responses here prove that to me. It's why I wanted to put it up for us to look at.

I respect the block call. I would've respected a PC call. It is really, really close.

Sometimes I think the "default to charge" mentality has taken the old "it's always a block" and swung completely the other way. I think a lot of officials at lower levels aren't looking at the plays and when there's a crash, just going the other way. Not at this level and I'm not talking about anyone here.

Again, what does left foot have to do with anything? He's already set, his body doesn't budge, in other words, his body never moves right due to left foot moving. let me ask you, if left foot moved backward and all else is same, what is your call?

It's very close , yet IMHO you're arriving at your call for the wrong reasons.

Rich:

With all do respect, I thought it was an easy call. Either the defender established a LGP or he didn't and I thought it was a no brainer, at least for me, that it was a charge.

It is my opinion that too many times a block is called on a bang-bang block/charge, when it really is a charge, and this is because the official either does not the rule, fails to officiate the defense, or (at the H.S. level) is afraid to call a charge because a block is the expected call by coaches in far too many areas.

MTD, Sr.

Agreed, it was close, but it was a charge.

If his foot is sliding, then it's on the floor and he has LGP.

I haven't seen the video yet.

Agree ...
 

He continues to reach new plateaus.

That was a good episode though! :D

+1

I have a charge in first viewing. I watched the slow motion and rewinded it a few times and still a charge.

Defender establishes LPG and takes the contact right in the torso, he is clearly out of the RA. But it's a bang bang play and I thought the L did a good job of selling it hard and quickly.

I just think he got it wrong :D

+1

I've got a charge on this. Live, I would go charge and want to see tape later. Slow, it gets pretty clear that it's a charge.

I have a charge but this is as bang bang as it gets.

PC, and I don't think its really that close. Then again, I come out of the locker room calling charges.

Seriously, we have to stop chickening-out (in my view what happens) on these calls. I feel like too many officials think the block is the "safe" call. Hold the defender to the guidelines of the rule and nothing more. We protect the shooter only in situations where the defender initiated or is otherwise responsible for the contact.

I think because I'm still learning, I would have called this a block as L. Very close and the fact that B was sliding (I know by rule he's allowed to) makes my first inclination for these types of plays to be a block. A1 also took off so close to the defender that it's the kind of play that will still surprise me sometimes.

What should the L have done differently?

Called the charge. Looks to me like he's in good enough position to see the defender.

Agreed. I don't think this is a matter of what the L could have done differently other than go the other way with the call.

It's bang bang and I can see how from the L's vantage point it may look like the defender slid late into the path or even under the offensive player if he thought the offense was already air borne.

I'm with the majority in going with a PC here but I've likely called similar plays a block before so I'm not too critical of an official going with the block. I'm sure he'll review it on tape, probably wish he went the other way, and have a higher accuracy percentage going forward than most everyone here, yours truly included.

This is why I said in my first post a few days ago I was surprised Valentine didn't make the call...in large part because it's him but also because he had the best view of when the offensive player made contact.

I had a charge live, btw.

I agree with TexAggie and MTD, Sr. - a lot of guys, even at the upper levels, chicken out and go with the block because it's safe. Since I'm NCAAW someone who is an NCAAM official would have to tell me but I get the feeling on the Men's side of things the default is "when in doubt, call a block."

PC all the way.

Contact!
 

Since I can't seem to attach a picture :mad: I took a screen shot of the moment just before impact.

http://youtu.be/J15BZYhNEKg

JetMet, upload your pic here. TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting It's the easiest way to share a picture.

Bless you, Welpe
 

Thanks.

As I was saying, here's a screen shot of the moment just before impact:

http://i44.tinypic.com/2mngpxf.gif

After further review................?????

Still sticking with block?

No comment... :)

Seeing how the left did come back down, yeah the defender is legal. On my first viewing I didnt see the left come back down, thought he jumped off the right, which would've made him airborne as the defender is sliding over.

I am ok with the L making the PC though. Tough play, tough call.

You lost me again, You were originally referring to defender's left foot sliding over which means nothing, now if I'm reading correctly you're talking about shooter????:confused:

Any relation to professor Irwin Corey?:)