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-   -   Defnder uncutting airborne shooter (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/89382-defnder-uncutting-airborne-shooter.html)

MiamiWadeCounty Thu Feb 23, 2012 02:33am

Defnder uncutting airborne shooter
 
When a player jumps straight up for a normal jump shot and then a defender moves right under the shooter's land spot and contact occurs, this would be a defensive foul.

Can someone tell where in the NCAA and NFHS rules book does it say that this is a foul on the defender?

Camron Rust Thu Feb 23, 2012 03:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty (Post 826872)
When a player jumps straight up for a normal jump shot and then a defender moves right under the shooter's land spot and contact occurs, this would be a defensive foul.

Can someone tell where in the NCAA and NFHS rules book does it say that this is a foul on the defender?

We've basically been discussing this in another tread..."flop".

See NFHS 4-23.

An airborne shooter basically has established a path to a landing spot at the time they go airborne. Once they have done so, a defender may not move into a position on that path.

zm1283 Thu Feb 23, 2012 09:06am

I had a coach earlier this week in a GV game complain after I called his team for a foul on this exact play, then didn't call the other team for a foul when their post defender had maintained verticality on a non-airborne shooter. I guess the difference in the two was lost on him.

JugglingReferee Thu Feb 23, 2012 09:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty (Post 826872)
When a player jumps straight up for a normal jump shot and then a defender moves right under the shooter's land spot and contact occurs, this would be a defensive foul.

Can someone tell where in the NCAA and NFHS rules book does it say that this is a foul on the defender?

Blocking foul for not allowing the airborne shooter to land properly/safely.

I dare say it's among the easiest call to make.

Welpe Thu Feb 23, 2012 09:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 826910)
Blocking foul for not allowing the airborne shooter to land properly/safely.

I dare say it's among the easiest call to make.

As long as you actually stay with the shooter...unlike what I did in my first year and then couldn't explain to a coach why his shooter was on the floor.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ru...n-Facepalm.gif

JugglingReferee Thu Feb 23, 2012 09:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 826918)
As long as you actually stay with the shooter...unlike what I did in my first year and then couldn't explain to a coach why his shooter was on the floor.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ru...n-Facepalm.gif

I've been there too. I dislike that I had to learn some things the hard way.

stiffler3492 Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 826910)
Blocking foul for not allowing the airborne shooter to land properly/safely.

I dare say it's among the easiest call to make.

It is, and maybe it's just my area, but this play might not be getting called. I called it one game, and the coach said I was one of the only officials who actually made that call.

zm1283 Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 826925)
It is, and maybe it's just my area, but this play might not be getting called. I called it one game, and the coach said I was one of the only officials who actually made that call.

I will say that as a whole, I don't take much grief from coaches at all when airborne shooters are fouled.

Raymond Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiWadeCounty (Post 826872)
When a player jumps straight up for a normal jump shot and then a defender moves right under the shooter's land spot and contact occurs, this would be a defensive foul.

Can someone tell where in the NCAA and NFHS rules book does it say that this is a foul on the defender?

For NCAA-M it's a pet peeve of John Adams, especially with 3-pt shooters.

stiffler3492 Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 826934)
I will say that as a whole, I don't take much grief from coaches at all when airborne shooters are fouled.

It goes both ways for me. The example I cited was more of a compliment than a criticism, but I've had to explain the rule to plenty of coaches who claimed their kid was just "boxing out".

Adam Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 826925)
It is, and maybe it's just my area, but this play might not be getting called. I called it one game, and the coach said I was one of the only officials who actually made that call.

Don't believe coaches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 826899)
I had a coach earlier this week in a GV game complain after I called his team for a foul on this exact play, then didn't call the other team for a foul when their post defender had maintained verticality on a non-airborne shooter. I guess the difference in the two was lost on him.

This is common, coaches ignoring differences.

MiamiWadeCounty Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 826875)
We've basically been discussing this in another tread..."flop".

See NFHS 4-23.

An airborne shooter basically has established a path to a landing spot at the time they go airborne. Once they have done so, a defender may not move into a position on that path.

I was thinking about NFHS 4-23, but I just wanted to make sure.

Why couldn't the NF rules book be a easy as Fiba rules book? :confused:

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Feb 23, 2012 01:50pm

Undercutting.
 
The is a big difference between, getting to the spot late when trying to draw a charge, and undercutting.

Getting there late is nothing more that a blocking foul and can either be a CF or PF against a player in the Act of Shooting.

Undercutting is an all together different animal. Undercutting is a deliberate attempt to seriously hurt another player. It is almost always done by the defender stepping into the airborne player's (ABP's) path with the defender having his back to the ABP so that the ABP's knees hits the defender in his back (in effect taking the ABP's feet our from under him) and causes the ABP to somersault over the defender. Undercutting should always (with J. Dallas Shirley) be considered a Flagrant Personal Foul (FPF). In fact if my memory serves me correctly, years ago, undercutting was addressed in the Rules Book as a FPF; I think it was during the NBCUSC era.

Suprisingly, I have had only one defender undercut an ABP in 41 years of officiating: a boys' H.S. jr. varsity game and this was in the late 1980's, long after the NBCUSC was split into the NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's Rules Committees. I did not hesitate to charge him with a FPF. There was barely three feet outside the Endlines and I didn't thing the shooter was going to get up, let alone shoot his free throws. The defender's HC didn't like the call but he should have been thankful that his player had not seriously hurt the opposing player.

MTD, Sr.

MD Longhorn Thu Feb 23, 2012 02:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 826925)
the coach said I was one of the only officials who actually made that call.

I was under the impression this was true of ALL of my calls, in all 4 sports.


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