First Technical - Anticlimactic
 

I got my first tech in the 6th grade, but I gave my first tech after an a very close OT that literally ended in the last seconds. (JH Boys)

The opposing coach (dominant private school, winning all game) had a great attitude until the very end when he didn't like one of my calls. He told my partner and I our calls were BS in front of both teams while they were shaking hands. Correction, he was yelling above the fray while they were trying to shake hands. He had primed the pump by saying a few times that we couldn't do anything as the game had already ended. We were by the scorers table and clearly hadn't left the court, much less the area.

The book recorded it, but really it doesn't make a ton of difference since our JH league is the "wild, wild, west", as has been discussed on other threads. I doubt anything will happen even if the tech is reported.

Why were you still on the court? Get to the locker room and you avoid situations like this.

Even if there's another game behind your 6th grade game, clear off the court and wait until the participants for the next game come out before returning. There's no reason to *ever* put yourself in position to take cheap shots after the final horn.

I worked a game a few weeks ago and the JV officials brought the game ball into the locker room after their game ended. I looked at it like it was a turd and asked them how they could get the ball as they were ignoring it and leaving the court? A few seconds later, the AD arrived (with a disgusted look on his face) and retrieved the ball from the JV official.

Unless you live in MA where you are required to supervise handshakes, jog off the court on the final horn -- anything that happens after that not directly in your visual path is not your problem.

I went to watch the local conference championship game last night, and the officials took the ball with them when they left the floor. I've never seen this before, but it sort of made sense to me.

One reason I thought they might have done it, was so that the winning school could have the game ball from the conference championship game. Or, maybe since there was no game behind them, it was just to make sure that the host school got the ball back.

Even if there was a game behind them, it would make sense (to me at least) to hand off the game ball to the next crew. I don't see the big deal. It's almost the same as leaving the ball at the table, and the R could drop it off at the table when he goes to check the book anyway.

Or maybe it's just me.

I work underlevel games, and especially after the first game of a doubleheader, sometimes my partner will be at center court after the final buzzer supervising handshakes. I feel that it would be wrong to leave him there by himself, so I go stand next to him.

I've never had an issue as in the OP, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

Even in games where we don't go to the locker room at half, and have to retrieve our jackets before going to the locker room, I try to sneak around the back of the benches, grab our jackets, and get out of there.

You said this was a close game that ended in the last few seconds. Was it so close that the T on the coach would have resulted in free throws that could have changed the outcome of the game? If so, you would shoot those.

If you aren't going to the locker room at halftime, don't wear your jackets out for the pregame. There's *no reason* I will *ever* put myself in a position where I have to stick around after the final horn.

And yes, I'll let my partner out there alone if he wants to stay out there. And give it to him when he gets back to the locker room. Better yet, discuss this beforehand. Tell your partner you are leaving on the final horn to get a drink and rest for a few minutes.

Why would the officials *ever* give a **** about the basketball or who gets it? It's not my ball -- let game management or the home team corral the ball. Nobody's going to let the ball get away.

On the horn, I'm *gone*. The only thing that exists at that point is the *door*. Trust me, it only takes one incident to teach you that the hard way.

I don't know, I was just guessing at why they did that. Maybe on his way out, the ball bounced in front of the official, and he just happened to catch it and just took it out with him.

Yup. If my partner wants to stick around, change his shoes, check his cell phone and shake everyone's hands that's his prerogative. I'm not sticking around.

In that case, I'd catch it and drop it or run around it. *It's not my ball.*

Another thing I do is take my whistle off at the horn as I'm running off. Nobody's going to grab me by the lanyard that way.

(In the old days, Earl Strom would take off his belt and wrap it around his hand in case he ever had to knock someone out who physically accosted him. Times have changed, but some things remain the same.)

Rich, whats that all about?

I have worked in tournaments where we've been asked to take the game ball to the locker room for the next game.

But other than that I'm not concerned with the ball. If a player tosses it to me I will quickly look to see if there is someone from the home admin to toss it to safely. If not, then I'll just drop it where I'm at.

So no one can run up on you and snatch you by the lanyard. In fact I often tuck my whistle in my shirt during full time-outs and between quarters.

BNR I'm aware of that, I was talking about the part that was underlined... running off the court :confused:

If its not a heated EOG situation with fans rushing the court & I'm not embarassed by the job I just did, then I'm proudly walking off the court.

Doesn't mean the guy in the second row was enamored with your performance.

Go.

It's one of those things I was taught -- to never let my whistle be in a place where anyone can grab it.

I wear a noose, but it's not a breakaway noose. If someone grabbed my whistle they would probably hurt/clothesline me. So I take it off, usually as the clock is expiring or on my way off the floor.

I suppose I could just tuck the whistle inside my shirt.

It's consistency. There are times that we need to get out quickly. If I do it *every game* there's no interpretation necessary. It's not like I sprint -- I jog at about the same pace I'd move as the trail bringing the ball up the court.

Me too, and I instinctively tuck the whistle.

I'm all for the tuck or removal, but running off the court??

And I've never given a damn about what a fan -errr- FANATIC thinks about my performance. Because quite frankly, what I do speaks so loud that I cannot hear what they say!

#pointblankperiod

It's not words, it's about one of them losing his head and rushing the court quickly.

You might hear their fist crashing against your teeth.

Go.

It's not what they think, it's what they might do when given the chance. I'm not sprinting off, but I am jogging. I'm not waiting for a handshake line, I'm not grabbing the ball, and I'm not waiting for grandma to start asking questions.

Whether I feel proud of the game has nothing to do with what the fans think, or coaches.

I've had one game, that I thought was called well, where a fan/father attempted to find us afterwards. No idea what would have happened had we walked off slowly.

To each his or her own... running off looks cowardly to me.

Had a couple partners run off a while back & as the teams are shaking the WINNING teams coach says they would be alright if they ran that hard during the game as well.

Nobody said walk off slowly Snaqs. I'm moving with a purpose, just like during the game.

When the professor says stop running off the court, you stop running off the court.

And


are contradictory statements. You say you don't care what fans think, yet running would be construed as cowardly to fans.

Looks like if you have a "good game" you want to be seen. The only people I care about seeing me are partners, my supervisor, and my family when I get home. Just hustle/jog off the floor.

We work in different areas - some worse than others... but running off the court is NEVER bad advice. And running off every time is definitely better than picking and choosing when to run off (it's the inconsistency that will offend someone some day). He's not sprinting or advocating sprinting. But he's not walking either.

Ummm no, sorry, never said it looked cowardly to fans just said it looks cowardly. #getitright

Could care less about being seen, well, unless its a camp setting.

Let me see, who shall I listen to Mr. George Tolliver or berserkBBK?? :rolleyes:

We had some discussion about this sort of action in my area over the last couple of seasons. It is my opinion, that if the T will not be shot and will not change the outcome of the game, assessing it is meaningless. In the OP, I'd say either ignore the coach or eject him, in this case it sounds like the coach earned an ejection. Having a T in the book carries no penalty and will be a joke to the coach.

When I work in the NBA (with the amount of security they have), I'll walk proudly off the court. Until then, I'll jog off the court the same way, every time.

I'm confused who would see this as cowardly?
I'm sure Toliver did not say stay around on the court, and I know that's not what you mean. I just don't see the point to walk instead of jogging. A problem can happen quickly, and I want to be away as not to be a target to the problem.

Depends - a lot of areas track T's on coaches, so this one might matter in the long run. Besides - your authority is not over until you're gone. While I personally would have been gone LONG before this happened, if for some reason I was stuck on the court and someone does something T-worthy, they are getting one. Ditto ejections in baseball/softball (and yes, I HAVE ejected a coach after a game was over).

To whom then? It's fine if you're told in your area not to run off the court. In every area I've worked in, I want to get off the court as quickly as possible so I don't have to call one of those unnecessary post-game T's when someone decided to say something as I'm leisurely strolling off the court. Why invite a fan from the student section to get in your face as you stroll off the court? I work in a big metro area - I don't want to be on the news as that ref who was blindsided by an angry parent. If that makes me a coward to you, I really don't care.

I hear ya Rich, thats why I said (in post #24) to each his or her own...

I can dig it, everyone has to do whats best for them.

Smitty!! You're putting words in my mouth, nobody is strolling or leisurely... walking with a purpose. Never called anybody a coward, I got love for all Forum members just said it looked cowardly.

You guys do whats best for you, I was just sharing another perspective on our exit of the court.

FTR, all the places I work have one parking lot & if they wanna get ya... they'll wait for you. Then & only then will I run. If they follow me they better not let me make it to the trunk.

#keylessentry

Explain the difference...

Dude, you don't get it. In the heat of the moment at the end of the game people still may not have control of their emotions. After the time for me to dress and get out to the parking lot, cooler heads will prevail - plus I'm walking out the side or back door if there is one. If someone is waiting for me in the parking lot, that's a whole other issue.

We wil have to agree to disagree on this one. In post 15 I clearly said:

Reading is FUNdamental! And I'm done with this. You guys do whats best for you & I'll do whats best for me.

I'll be waiting for you at the door, partner. I'm not walking, but I'm also not leaving my partner alone on the court.

That's when you get security to walk you to your car.
If you're working a game with me, my cowardly butt is going to be waiting by the locker room while you are still on the court. If you carried me during the game I might be returning the favor and give you a lift. However most likely I'll just pass you with a nice nudge or tap and hope nothing stupid happened while you are walking back.

I do, too. But for a different reason. :D

Shut Up ...
 

Everybody just walk slowly away. And don't look back. If we ignore him, maybe he'll just go away on his own.

Unless all your games are in the D-League I don't see how George's advice applies to what you should be doing with your scholastic crews. :confused:

For me, I'm trying to leave the court area as a crew. So if I'm at the far end I'm going to jog til I reach my partner(s). If I'm closer to the exit I will walk briskly to the nearest boundary line and look to see where the rest of my crew is and wait.

But I'm sure as heck not going stroll 94' to the other end of the court when my partners are waiting on me. And if the reason you make your crew wait for you to walk that far is because Mr. Tolliver told you to, then that's called "big-timing", IMHO.

No I'm not working D-League games. BUT when learning to bake a cake who shall I allow to teach me... The neighborhood lady or Sara Lee??

That's the problem, people want to be critical of where the information comes from instead of being open to it. Everything the Pros do can be applied at all levels.

Different rules, floor mechanics & signals... YES.
But at the end of the day, as long as the rims are 10' & they play 5 on 5 & the FT line is 15' & we have boundary lines... BASKETBALL IS BASKETBALL.

To be quite honest, until I started getting the top notch info my scholastic career was quite lame. I also didnt work any college or pro levels. The season after I went to the D-League camp (nope didnt get hired obviously) I applied the info that I obtained & got to R a State C'Ship in year 4. All my other opportunities came that summer.
That's no coincidence :cool:

FTR, big timing isnt even a thought process, but you will either get on board with the program or get left behind.

I Know, I Need A Twelve Step Program ...
 

Seems it never rains in southern California.

Sorry tref. I couldn't resist.

You are going find that some supervisors don't think everything the NBA does is right or should be applied to their games. And do you think I'm going to be left behind if I don't get my mentoring from George Tolliver or other NBA employees? One thing I've learned from guys who work in the venues I aspire to work is that you need to remember where and for whom you are working every night.

You're last few post are most definitely examples of big-timing. George Tolliver is from VA. I know many, many officials who have been through his camps--D-League, as well as the instructional camp he used to hold in Harrisonburg every year. None of these officials have ever invoked Tolliver's name as a reason to do something.

If you try to get in the Horizon or Summit or Big Ten or Great Lakes Valley Conference and you are told by an evaluator that the supervisor wants his officials to jog off the court together after every game do really think that you should continue to walk off the court b/c George Tolliver told you so in his camp?

I know how to adjust to give a particular assignor what they want on that particular night.
I do it quite often, at each level. They don't want ticky tack b/c fouls in the ABA so I don't call em. One JUCO assignor wants the C to stand at the 3 point line looking down on FTs, my other JUCO assignor doesn't like it. So I adjust.

I know a few Forum members that are getting the same info that I get. Now I see why they choose to speak about it in PMs instead of publicly. When I post these things all Im doing is sharing million dollar info for free.
Like most info, we take it or leave it...

As for your big tliming reference, I was simply sharing how applying NBA techniques/thought process has steepened my personal learning curve, which in turn has created opportunities at other levels as well as moved me to the head of the class at the level I currently work. That's all! Before I opened my mind to these practices I had a 17 game varsity schedule heavy on the girls side.

I know guys who work for George Tolliver and I know guys who work for Donnie Vaden. A fair amount of the posters here know a big-name or 2 or 3 who have given them valuable information that they have in turn passed on to the forum.

Nothing wrong with sharing information. Might want to take a look at your delivery. Most definitely should take a second look at name-dropping. Quite often it's not only the audience who minds, but the name you are dropping who does as well.

No worries, I won't be sharing ANYthing here ANYmore. I'll let it slide down to the college ranks & then guys will buy in when the information finally makes it to the HS level in about a decade or so :rolleyes:
You know, sorta like RSBQ is just now being talked about & accepted in HS but has been around for quite a few years.

...I'll take it, keep it coming!

(Doesn't mean I'll use everthing...but, I'm always open to different insights and/or a little healthy debate)

EDIT: BTW tref...I'm not a sprinter off the court, nor a slow walker off the court....more of a "brisk walker" off the court, unless situations dictate otherwise.

One Thing that Hasn't been mentioned
 

No one's mentioned the final responsibility that the R has to do before leaving the floor and that is to finalize the book. Now this doesn't have to be a formal process but it does need to be done. You don't have to go to the table. You don't have to sign the book. This needs to be part of the R's pregame with the table. Let them know that you are leaving the court as soon as the game is over. If they have a problem with the book, they need to inform you. You might even say that I will look at the table and if I don't see you waving me over, then I'm out of there. Of course this is more important on a close game. At the conclusion of a blow out there's no need for this.

My man!

I tell them I'll give a thumbs up as I'm briskly WALKING by & if all is well I expect them to hit me back with the same.

Personally it depends for me

If I'm on the far end of the court, I will give a quick step, even a jog, to catch up with my partners who are much closer to the exit.

If I'm closer to the door, then I walk to the exit and then look back and await my partner.

I use to walk towards my partners when I was closer to the door and then walk out as a crew, but my damn partners would walk faster than me and now I'm the dummy jogging to catch up with their quick steps :D

I guess everybody who is not in the NBA system or radar never has access to NBA information. :rolleyes:

Yeah, always takes years for stuff to slide down from the NBA. (:rolleyes: redux) Nevermind that John Guthrie and Ronnie Nunn were best of friends. Or that NBA refs have been dual-hatted as NCAA conference supervisors. Or that D-League and WNBA officials also work college schedules and as observers at college and high school camps. Or that Joe Forte and Nolan Fine are regulars on the camp circuit. Or that an obscure NCAA official in the DC area is a valued evaluator for the NBA.

Nope, us peons working only NCAA and HS ball will never be enlightened to NBA wisdom unless we are on the tref's PM list.

Really? I've seen others get bent outta shape here, but never YOU. Hell, I'm a peon too if thats the case. The thickest part of my schedule is HS!

Is the season still ongoing in VA?

BTW, you just dropped a ton of names... I hope they dont get upset :D

Yeah, but not the name of the person who taught me how to leave the court. ;)

True.
So are you still working or is it a burrito?

Now I know you're not that thin skinned. :D

All I was going to say is that I was going to start taking a drink everytime I read a cliche from you. But if I did, between that, Billy's mythbuster photos, Mark's hot mom jokes, and MTD's State University of Ohio cheers, I'd be drunk every night. :D

I honestly doubt we look that different when leaving the court; as long as you don't head for the table or chase down the ball, we'll meet pretty quickly as we approach the door off the court.

Who You Gonna Drink To ???
 

Snaqwells: Say hello to your liver for me.

I've had partners...
 

...who were so in love with performing for the table, they wind up retrieving the ball, walking it to the table, shaking hands with the folks there, and basically preening and waiting to lap up the compliments. Heck yes, these partners get left.

Having grown up in New York, I've been conditioned on how to walk with a purpose. So while I don't run, I walk with alacrity, trying to give off the vibe I'm 6' 7", mean as all get out, and have no problem stomping your brains out.

It seems to work.

College game left. HS??? Good question.

Update: HS regional semi-final and final. After that I'm sure I'm done.

Richmond Bound?
 

Will I be seeing you in couple of weeks at the Seigel Center?

I wouldn't hold my breath.

I am working with one of your buddies this Sunday though.

The coach who received the tech had just lost. We didn't shoot the free throws, as we were already running 45 minutes late and both A teams were streaming on the court to warm up. I know we should officiate all games the same, but that is just how it happened this time around.

You wouldn't shoot free throws in this situation anyways, as they would have no impact on the outcome of the game.