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-   -   Flop (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/89330-flop.html)

Scrapper1 Wed Feb 22, 2012 09:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 826512)
In my opinion, if A1 was going to go through B1 anyways, this is still a PC foul.
But A1 didn't go through B1. B1 changed his position while A1 was airborne and put A1 at a disadvantage.

Zoochy Wed Feb 22, 2012 09:42am
B1 and A1 are running in the same direction and same path. B1 is ahead of and moving away from A1. A1 is running/dribbling faster. Now A1 jumps for a lay-up, shoots and proceeds to land on B1. :eek:
I saw this play on Monday. Did B1 do anything wrong?

Adam Wed Feb 22, 2012 09:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 826516)
But A1 didn't go through B1. B1 changed his position while A1 was airborne and put A1 at a disadvantage.
Maybe, if A1 would have jumped OVER B1, but I don't see too many players capable of this.

Welpe Wed Feb 22, 2012 09:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 826516)
But A1 didn't go through B1.
We're picturing the play differently then.

rockyroad Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 826506)
We've had this exact conversation pretty recently, and I will repeat my minority opinion. Regardless of whether B1 has LGP before A1 becomes airborne, once A1 becomes airborne, if B1 moves to a new position, B1 is responsible for any contact.

There is no way I'm allowing any player to move into an airborne player's landing spot AFTER that player becomes airborne.
OK, now I am back to where I was at before...you have unconvinced me.

Stupid groupthink.

Stupid old age.

Stupid M&M Guy.

Welpe Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:13am
Remember, by rule, falling away to absorb contact does not remove LGP from a player that had initially established it.

Rocky come back to the dark side...we have cookies. And groupthink on tap.

Adam Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:17am
What exactly, by rule, has the defender done to lose LGP? Move backwards?

Art N Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by allpurposegamer (Post 826439)
nfhs rules specifically state that every player is entitled to a space on the floor provided they get there legally. However unlikely, if a defender gets to a spot on while on the floor, first and legally, then by rule if a player is to land on him, it wouldn't be a block. This is different than the ncaa rule if i recall correctly.
+1

Art N Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 826439)
NFHS rules specifically state that every player is entitled to a space on the floor provided they get there legally. However unlikely, if a defender gets to a spot on while on the floor, first and legally, then by rule if a player is to land on him, it wouldn't be a block. This is different than the NCAA rule if I recall correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman (Post 826438)
Once a player establishes LgP they don't have to maintain it to take a charge. However a player cannot have LGP while on the floor. If a player falls to the floor with no contact and the airborne shooter lands on him I'm calling a block all day long.
Duff, I would respectfully submit that you would be incorrect all day long making that call! ;)

Art N Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 826516)
But A1 didn't go through B1. B1 changed his position while A1 was airborne and put A1 at a disadvantage.
What? How did you come up with this conclusion? B1 avoids initial contact and now somehow is to blame for A1 landing on her?????? How come you are not placing any responsibility on A1 for going airborne when she wouldn't have had any place to land.

So if you swing at me and I duck and you hit the wall behind me, it would be my fault right, because I didn't stay in front of the potential violent contact? :D
I know it is NOT the same thing, but you get the gist of it.

Art N Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 826506)
We've had this exact conversation pretty recently, and I will repeat my minority opinion. Regardless of whether B1 has LGP before A1 becomes airborne, once A1 becomes airborne, if B1 moves to a new position, B1 is responsible for any contact.

There is no way I'm allowing any player to move into an airborne player's landing spot AFTER that player becomes airborne.
B1 has not moved into a new space under airborne A1. She was already THERE in A1's path to the hoop! B1 falling down (i.e she falls straight back) doesn't make her go under A1. Look at it more like A1 is OVER her whether she stands up or falls! Bottom line for me: Would A1 have crashed into B1 if she was standing up? If so, how in the world are you going to fault a player for getting out of the way of train wreck?

Art N Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:52am
[QUOTE=Scrapper1;826506]We've had this exact conversation pretty recently, and I will repeat my minority opinion.


hmmm, maybe that should have been an eye opener for you! :D

Raymond Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:54am
I think what we are getting at is the spirit and intent of LGP as it relates to airborne shooters.

I personally don't think the powers-that-be intended for us to call PC/Charging when a defender purposely falls down without contact and the airborne shooter lands on them. And I don't think that what coaches want either.

Adam Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:56am
Then they should change the rule, or issue a power point.

Raymond Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 826565)
Then they should change the rule, or issue a power point.
Only after taking a poll and posting a questionaire.


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