Tonight's game
 

I had a single game tonight. It was the boys varsity championship.

I'm curious about 2 calls, and would like your opinion. My partner is a veteran official who can referee well.

#1: Team B gets possession on a steal on the left wing and B2 from the right wing breaks right away. A2 stays with him, but is 1 step behind him. B1, who stole the ball from A1, passes to B2, who receives the pass in his FC, between the 3-point line and the centre circle. B2 is going to dunk. However, his pivot foot comes up before the ball goes down. I'm the new L in transition and without missing a heartbeat, call the travel. Crowd doesn't like it at all. Our evaluator suggests to let that travel go because it's a breakaway (even though A1 is just 1 step behind) and it's going to be a dunk.

Would you pass on this for any reason? Would the spread matter? Would the type of game matter: regular season vs. city final? (This discussion point came up a few years ago and those that work college ball up here say to let it go. I say call it what it is and let the actions of the players decide what to call.)

I like what my P said in the post-game: "we're not in the entertainment business."


#2: 2nd half, I'm L opposite side. A1 drives from the T's side, above the FT line extended. So, iow, no need for me to be looking there at all - I'm 100% off-ball. Drive comes down to just outside the block on the T's side - never entering the key. Bam! Contact on the torso between A1 and B1. B1 was the primary defender. B1 goes down to the floor - "medium hard" (think steak cooking :)). I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that it was a PC foul. Yes, I do think there was enough contact for it to be called.

But since the play started outside my area, finished outside my area (debatable perhaps), and involved A1 and B1, I'm only going to grab that foul if my partner is weak. Since my P is obviously not weak, I pass on the call. Our evaluator said he'd rather see a call in that case.

Would you call it? Does the ability of your P matter? Would you call it even if you were straight-lined at the time of contact? (I positioned myself to referee the matchups in the paint rather than something outside my area.)


Other situations: Naturally it's going to get *very* loud in the gym due to the nature of the game. We tell the coaches in the pre-game, to use their voice and a hand signal when requesting a time-out. We also tell them it would help if they told use ahead of time when they intend to request a timeout (again, because of the ambient noise level). (Eg: you're reporting a foul and the coach says "timeout if we make the last free-throw".)

Sure enough, this happens, but since there's no signal for "TO after a made FT", and just a signal for a TO, I grant a "future TO request". The gym was fairly quiet but this coach didn't use his voice at all to add the "after we score the 2nd free throw". Grrrr. I guess it came back to bite us in the a$$.

Other #2: We stopped the clutching and grabbing early and they played a great game without that nonsense stuff. There was still the odd foul for a hold to prevent getting beat off the dribble, but all in all it was pretty cleaned up.

Other #3: I went sans-lanyard. It is fun! My evaluator said go for it! lol Mind you, he and I did the semi together sans-lanyard.

#1 -- If it's clear that he travelled, get it. But a strong benefit of the doubt goes to the offense (i.e., legal play) here.

#2 -- If you had a competitive match-up, then you need to stay with it. If not, know that this is the type of play on which a T often needs help and expand your area.

+1

OK, I have a question. You state "#2: 2nd half, I'm L opposite side. A1 drives from the T's side, above the FT line extended."

If you are lead "opposite side" wouldn't the T be on your side? Did the drive in question actually come from the "C's" primary?

It reads like 2 man mechanics. He says in the OP that his partner, not partners.

Since OP mentioned only a singular "partner," it sounds like a two-official game.

We have been advised to not take advanced timeouts for playoffs. Since there is nothing that states a coach can tell you, "timeout if he makes it". We have been advised to tell the coach, "signal the timeout if he makes it and I will grant it coach."

Yes, I should have expanded on that. We did tell them it helps to know in advance, but they still must request when actually desired. Knowing ahead of time means we'll look for it.

+1

Was B2 on a dead run or at a standstill when he got the ball? In the air or on one foot? Can you elaborate a bit more?

Like reffing at a nudist camp, other than 'fun' aspect, why?:)

Good advice! An esteemed, but absent member of this forum used to offer up the following. If the coach asks for a "future" timeout during free throws, the best (cya) is to let the coach know that you'll be looking for his/her request, but they will have to make it at the appropriate time.

Because we can.

I don't know what a dead run is, but B2 was running and caught the ball in stride from B1.

If they were playing football, it would have been a great pass from QB to receiver. Because B2 caught the ball outside the 3-point line, he couldn't dunk without a dribble, and therefore his foot movement was more restrictive.

Good answer. 'Nuff said.

The reason I ask is this: 4-44-2 states A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:
b. If one foot is on the floor:
1. It is the pivot foot when the other foot touches in a step.(Not your scenario.)
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.

So the point is if he is running and he catches the ball on his right foot then has neither on the ground and starts his dribble this should be legal as he has not established a pivot foot yet. He would be able to land on both feet (but not have a pivot) or start a dribble and continue moving. So was it really a travel?

Are you saying a player who catches the ball, while running, with his right foot on the floor, can lift his right foot before starting his dribble?

Yep. he hasn't technically established it as a pivot yet.

I will say this, if the player's second foot isn't down yet when he starts his dribble, then I probably can't tell that the first foot has been lifted. But that's not relevant to the rule you're quoting.

What about a player who catches the ball with both feet on the floor, then jumps off of both feet before starting his dribble?

If he starts a dribble that is a travel. So what if the player in the OP, catches the ball on one foot starts a dribble then lands on both feet simultaneously? Then what do you have?

Why is it a travel? He hasn't established a pivot foot yet.

Interesting question. You're talking about what is essentially a jump stop in which the receiver starts dribbling before he lands?

I see your point too. Good one. In my mind catching a ball on a sprint doesn't give the player much time to get the ball out of their hand nor stop on one foot. I understand the jump stop part. Just saying there is no way to know what the player is going to do and if he starts the dribble in the air in this situation I am passing. It is hard to see how you can call a travel if the player has only ever had one foot on the floor.

Wouldn't make sense since after the player lands he can legally start a dribble....

My point exactly.

Just fleshing this out a bit:
1. A1, on the run, catches with the right foot on the floor.
2. A1 lifts that foot in his run.
3. A1 starts his dribble.
4. A1 puts his left foot down as part of his run.

On step four, his right foot became the pivot, retroactively.
He had lifted that pivot before the dribble started.
Travel.

Other play where we retroactively learn of a travel:
A1 catches the ball, pivots, lifts his pivot foot, and then releases a pass towards A2, who has run away from the area.
A1 runs to retrieve the ball.

This is a travel because A1 lifted his pivot before starting his dribble. (The throw in should be at the spot nearest where his pivot foot was lifted.)

I still don't agree with you in the first case and even if I did, I still wouldn't call it because it would be bang bang.

As for the second one, can't you take as many steps during a dribble as you want. Ball is out of his hands, he hasn't used his dribble yet, I think this should be legit as well, as long as he passed the ball before lifting the pivot foot and hasn't used his dribble already.

How bout this one?
Adam Coble Basketball Breakaway Dunk - YouTube Skip to 0:30

Or this one.
C.J. Fair's Dunk Vs. Cornell - YouTube

Sorry, I meant to add that he lifts his pivot foot before releasing that pass.

And I agree about the likelihood of calling it. As I noted before, if the dribble somehow starts in the moment between the pivot foot going up and the other foot coming down, I'm not likely to call it because I don't think I'm that good. It's just too close, and I don't like calling travels where I need slow motion replay to justify it.

Fair enough. Travel.

I still think it is not a travel because that one foot is not "technically" a pivot foot. What did you have for the two videos I posted? Where in the rules does it say you can retroactively call that a travel? Your first scenario is retroactive. The second is not retroactive. They just started a dribble after lifting the pivot foot and the ball bounced multiple times before they touched it. I think these are very different scenarios.

It's retroactive in that the travel happens when the dribble starts, but the call could come 50 feet and 8 minutes (conceivably) later.

I honestly couldn't get a good view, but I'm not sure if it's the laptop I'm using or the connection I'm using. At full speed, they looked like they were probably travels but I wouldn't be able to call them because I don't know for sure.

Disagree. You have to establish a pivot foot BEFORE the pivot foot restrictions are in effect....and a pivot foot can only be established while holding the ball. Except for one case, all traveling situations occur while holding the ball. If the ball has been released on a dribble before a pivot foot and the restriction on a pivot foot exist, it can't be a travel. Legal play.

EDIT: Additionally, after lifting the first foot, it would still be legal if the player, while still holding the ball, were to come down on both feet simultaneously and even then start a dribble. Why? No pivot was established at all.

Agree.

Agreed with this. Now if his other foot hits before he gets the ball out for a dribble that would be a travel as he has caught on one foot and the second landing makes the first his pivot according to 4-44-2-b-1.