I have witnessed over the years in officiating how some of the officials are so caught up in moving up the ladder, that they will sell there soles to the devil to do so.
I am from the New York City Area where there are lots of officials and it's very hard to get official to share information that may be helpful to another officials. I think it's a bit childish myself because officiating is just a "run" that will come to an end for all of us one day.
Is this an advocation filled with men/women who lack integrity? Or does officiating have the power to turn people into something that they really don't want to be, and then they loose the power to do anything about it!

I don't want to start a flame war but...
 

...may I ask you a question?

Why is it that every thread you start here is negative in content?

Everytime you start a thread, it's about integrity in officiating, racism in officiating, bad people in officiating, drugs in officiating, people in officiating who aren't open to others. Are you always this negative? If so, I can see why you're struggling so much in your officiating. Perhaps you should look at yourself than wondering what's wrong with others. :(

I'm not saying.:D

I've met Butch, and in fact roomed with him at camp last summer. I can honestly say that he doesn't seem like a negative person. He was very outgoing, and eager to listen and learn. Perhaps he simply knows that this is an accepting community where he can vent some frustration to people who know a little bit of what he's going thru.

Maybe he only shows himself to the board when he's frustrated. :)

After they do that, don't their shoes fit funny?

Is it different anywhere else?
 

It is a competition. Officiatiating is competetive. So just like anything out there where money, prestige, fame and recognition are at stake, you have people that will step over anyone and do just about anything to get to the top. It is no different than people at their job or at their church or even in your personal life. Human beings are flawed and officiating is only apart of that.

Peace

Why does ever discussion have to be bigger than the topic being discussed?
 

Come on Tony. :rolleyes: This is a discussion board. This is a discussion board. This is a discussion board. That is what we do here, discuss things about officiating. It is not life altering commentary, <b>it is just a discussion board.</b> Maybe that is what he sees on a regular basis? And all those issues you mentioned are important to someone. Everyone does not have great experiences being an official, maybe that is why in many places there is a shortage?

Peace

I hope I'm wrong and that you're correct.

Quote:

Perhaps he simply knows that this is an accepting community where he can vent some frustration to people who know a little bit of what he's going thru.

Perhaps. Perhaps he becomes frustrated easily. He once posted a thread in January, asking about summer camps, and then seemed to be offended, along these same lines, when he didn't get but one reply within a day's time.

Quote:

Maybe he only shows himself to the board when he's frustrated. :)

That's a definite.

Yes, it is a discussion board, where people express opinions. And it seems to me that every time Love2ref4Ever starts a threat, it's about some negative perception he has about officiating. He never participates in rule or case play discussions. It's just always the bad things that officiating has done to him. That's my opinion, if others don't agree, fine. But it seems like a sad way to go through life. Personally, if I found that much negativity in something, I'd turn my energies to more positive things.

I mean, think about the question. "Why Does Officiating Bring Out The Worst In Some People? " People are reluctant to share information and he perceives that as being "...the worst in people..."? I can think of a lot of character traits that are worse than that. Just a little too dramatic.

Quote:

Maybe that is what he sees on a regular basis? And all those issues you mentioned are important to someone. Everyone does not have great experiences being an official, maybe that is why in many places there is a shortage?

Perhaps there are shortages in some areas because many of the officials focus on the negative instead of the positive. maybe he should look at things differently, which is what I suggested in my initial reply.

As I said, I'm not starting a flame war here. I've stated my opinion. I'm leaving it at that.

No flame here.
 

I am not really addressing you directly on this I just think we need to allow people to express themselves, even when we do not like it. And I can see why you feel that way, I just think he is expressing himself a different way then we are or do. You and I have been on here for a long time, maybe he does not have the time to view the board or cares to, at least until he has a question. It is just a thought on my part. I am not even disagreeing with your opinion on his posts, just want everyone to consider that this is what we do here. How many posts do we complain about stupid coaches and fans during our travels. I would not call those post negative. I guess it is just me.


I will admit that it does not sound great, but maybe he has had bad experiences that you or I have had? And maybe he thinks that we should be better than that as officials?

I can agree with that.

I was not flaming you at all, just giving my point of view on the issue. I always try to see where other people are coming from. Maybe it is his interaction with officials that has soured him so? We do not need to add to it here.

Peace

From JRut to Tony:
"I can agree with that."
Now I know the world is ending!!!

I have been away from this website for a while because I have been busy keeping my own site up and running(Basketball Officials United) and I also have my own column that I am writing for NYCBasketball.com called the 'Referee Report." I am happy to let you know that when things are pressing me in the world of officiating I do like to share it here because this is a active officiating forum. I have also grown alot in this advocation where I don't respond to anyone who takes shots at me online, I just laugh. I give much credit to this forum and the people who keep it going for the fact that there is not another forum in the country that get's participation like this one. I understand that there are alot of things in this world that I do not control and people is number 1! I also know that I am about sharing and caring, where some of us are not really big on it. Again it's just a post and I am just looking for feedback. If it's positive or negative, I can live with it!
And last but not least, I have taken a look at myself and wondered how I can make officiating better and I realized I just keep sharing and caring works for me.

ad·vo·cate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dv-kt)
tr.v. ad·vo·cat·ed, ad·vo·cat·ing, ad·vo·cates
To speak, plead, or argue in favor of. See Synonyms at support.

n. (-kt, -kt)
One that argues for a cause; a supporter or defender: an advocate of civil rights.
One that pleads in another's behalf; an intercessor: advocates for abused children and spouses.
A lawyer.



av·o·ca·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-kshn)
n.
An activity taken up in addition to one's regular work or profession, usually for enjoyment; a hobby.
One's regular work or profession.
Archaic. A distraction or diversion.

Group hug time! ;)

Great post,Butch! great attitude too!

Big ups!
http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoti...ers/fing10.gif

As far as the first part of the post quoted here, I would agree that there are people who do that. BUT - for every one who does sell their soul, there are 2 or 3 others who don't. As far as the second quote, NO!!! Are there officials who lack integrity - yes. BUT - for every one of them...I think you get my drift. Perhaps you (Love2ref) have just been encountering the wrong type too much lately, and need to start seeking out the type of officials you want to spend your time with...they're out there - even in New York!

Hey Butch, just curious. . . what happened that prompted this thread? Without names, obviously, can you give us your situation? Maybe somebody here has some of the information that you couldn't get.

Chuck

Ya' know - I agree totally with what Love2ref4Ever said. Oh wait - I thought he was talking about lawyers.

This Is What's Going On!
 

On one of my boards that I belong to there are some changes going on. We recently had elections to fill two seats that have become vacant by two persons who were unable to fulfill there commitments. Now one of them is going around character assasinating the organization because they removed him from his position. This is not right because this person was in a great position to be apart of the executive board and help bring about change, but instead he didn't fulfill his obligation. Then there's another official who I helped introduce him to officiating and now he's lost his mind the way he is going around cut throating people for games and even went as far as to try and smear my name for no reason. Believe it or not I get such a thrill out of having the opportunity to meet some of the officials who are out there keeping this thing strong. I have attended camps with guys from this forum like Chuck and Dan and I just wanted to say that it's guys like them and the rest of you who keep me coming back to this website. It is "only" because that I know that I can get feedback here!

Sounds like two officials you don't need to spend any more time or energy on! Write them off and move on to helping someone else...my philosophy as a teacher is that I can only help those who want to be helped - once they show me the types of attitudes you are talking about, I move on to someone else who wants help...in the long run, I am responsible only for me, and I fail when I quit trying to help others, not when others quit wanting to be helped...hope that makes sense...

You know what they say

A good lawyer knows the law

A great lawyer knows the "JUDGE"

A little paraphrasing...
 

So let's see if this works. A good coach knows the game. A great coach knows the officials???

As if your heels don't fit funny enough???

I know Butch too, he is a great guy. As his name suggests, he loves to ref!

Hey Butch, I hope I'll be seeing you at Edgar's or Mickey's this summer!

Hey - my heels fit just fine - and they match my purse. Wait - did I really say that?

Okay Butch, it's sounds like you're a good guy. But focus on the positive. Life is to short not to enjoy it. ;)

HI YOU..you better speak to officials in this forum nicer ok?or else....
mark tell him..

This doesn't necessarily apply specifically to Butch, but since the thread has turned to a discussion of being positive or being negative, I thought I'd share this quotation that I just came across today.

Good Quotation!
 

I like that Chuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Great quote. I use a similar phrase with my players (usually just my captains) when they have a complaint: "Don't give me problems, give me solutions!"

Hey, maybe Byron Scott could use that quote with the Nets!!!

Here's another one I came across this morning:

It's kinda hard to argue with Mother Teresa!

My favorite is "Stress Management".This might help Butch.

"Picture yourself near a stream.Birds are softly chirping in the the crisp,cool mountain air.Butterflies are flitting with the breeze.Nothing can bother you here.No one knows this secret place of yours.You are in total seclusion from that place called 'the world'.The soothing sound of a waterfall fills the air with the cascade of serenity.The water is clear.You can easily make out the face of the a$$hole you are holding under the water!"

Works for me.

Oy! Don't remind me --- not that I've argued with Mother Theresa, but saying no to nuns can be next to impossible.