Does anyone know what happens if a defensive foul is called? Then the person with the ball runs into a set defender during the continuation motion and still has time to flip up a shot that goes in? How many fouls are called and does the bucket count?

You have one foul! The ball is dead in the situation that you described.

AK ref SE

By the book...

Both fouls are called. The shot is canceled since the shooter (A1) committed a player control foul against B2. The shooter is awarded 2 FTs since for being fouled (by B1) while in the act of shooting. The FTs are taken with the lane cleared. After the last FT s attempted, B gets the ball OOB at the spot nearest the PC foul.

In practice...

Both are <B><EM>RARELY</EM></B> called. In many cases, the foul by B1 contributes to the contact of A1 on B2. Thus, there is no grounds for charging A1 with a foul that is a direct result of contact from B1.

If the contact by B1 is rather minor and A1 is clearly about the plow through B2, I'm ignoring the contact by B1 and calling only the PC foul. Reason? The minor contact by B1 didn't have and bearing on the play. It didn't alter the advantage/disadvantage balance that existed.

A1 being fouled does not grant A1 a "get-out-of-jail-free" card. The priviledge A1 has of completing a shot comes at the cost of remaining responsible for any subsequent contact A1 causes. If A1 is fouled, it certainly doesn't grant A1 the permission to knock B2 out of the way to get a better shot.


I often use the same principle (deterining which of two possible fouls the call) when two defenders foul a shooter at about the same time. Whichever one made the biggest difference gets the foul, not necessarily the one that made contact first.

[Edited by Camron Rust on May 21st, 2003 at 05:20 PM]

This is not true. While he didn't clearly state it, he did imply that the original foul was committed during the act of shooting (i.e. the reference to continuous motion).

The ball remains live once the act of shooting has begin until the try ends by being made, missed or by a violation or a player control foul.

Cameron-
After reading your post, I can now read where he/she was in the act of shooting. Thanks for the clarification. Long day!

AK ref SE

But sometimes it is hard though camron. Lets say if A1 cleary has committed a PC foul against B1. But then B2 not knowing for sure what is called and to stop the continuation fouls A1 hard. Wouldn't only the PC foul get called because this is the one that happened first and therefore the play is dead?

Also what happens if A1 is fouled by B1. And then B2 comes in and fouls A1 again to make sure there is again no continuation. You are not going to call 2 fouls are you?

But that's not what you stated above. That's an entirely different situation. The player control foul by the airborne shooter causes the ball to become dead immediately, so B2 couldn't foul, unless it was flagrant or intentional. But in your original scenario, B2 fouled first. That makes the situation different.

Quote:

Also what happens if A1 is fouled by B1. And then B2 comes in and fouls A1 again to make sure there is again no continuation. You are not going to call 2 fouls are you?

That's a multiple foul, and no, you don't want to call that.

The reason I ask these questions is because I do this a lot as a player. If I see a foul committed and I know that A1 is trying to finish to get the continuation I will do everything I can to stop it which sometimes includes fouling A1. One time I did this, the ref tells me to listen to the whistle and stop play when the whistle is blown. About 10 minutes, later A1 again gets fouled and this time my teammate stops playing after the whistle. As luck would have it, B1 makes the shot on the continuation. I flashed a grin at the ref and he said he knew that was going to happen just because the world is like that.

The difference I'm reading is in your original situation, A1 is committing the foul, not being fouled. In most scenarios like this, I would not call the B foul afterward, because the ball is dead on the whistle. In your later posts, you are talking about A1 being fouled, in which case the official has to see if the shot drops (although not after more dribbles and steps ala NBA continuation). As a player I'd be VERY careful about "stopping the play any way I can". Some officials (me included) could look at that as flagrant as the whistle had been blown and the play is dead even as the ball is live (this may not be by the letter from the rule or casebook, but I don't have it with me so I'm going on my experience).

There is no flagrant call here. If the offensive player continues to the basket after the whistle is blown, I am going to make sure he barely gets the ball in the air. My point is that if the offensive player does not want to get fouled stop playing when the whistle blows. But of course they should not because you can always get the continuation call. And yes all this stuff I am talking about is different than the sitch I originally posted.

But if the official feels that you're intentionally trying to keep the shooter from making the shot, after the foul by your teammate, you will be called for an intentional technical foul. The shooter will get two shots, if he doesn't make the shot, his team will get 2 more FTs and the ball. From a strategy standpoint, a hoop and a FT is much better than 4 FTs and the ball. Plus, although you may not think it's flagrant, if the shooter takes a fall, you could get tossed.

Quote:

My point is that if the offensive player does not want to get fouled stop playing when the whistle blows.

That's not a point. The game's not played that way and you can't look at it that way. Hopefully, you realize that.

I'm not calling the second foul unless it's overly rough or obviously intentional (not bothering with the ball, for example), in which case I've got one personal and one intentional.
If it's intentional, you've pretty much got to call it, or you're going to end up with retaliation and an out of control game.

Adam

Called for a what!? ;)

4-19-3
An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul....

I think that Bob's point may be that it should be an intentional personal foul,because the ball is still alive(R4-19-1).