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-   -   Intentional or not? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/87034-intentional-not.html)

JRutledge Mon Jan 30, 2012 02:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 818236)
Fellas, I was just pointing out the differences in wording...

HS says excessive.
NCAA says excessive &/or unneccesary.

Whether they nudge or shove, its still a form of pushing. Airborne shooters dont get shoved or nudged from behind in my games. Just like an elbow hit or elbow tap... its still a foul.

Thats all :)

No it is not. All contact is not considered a foul by rule. So a nudge would not be the same as pushing someone. Heck I expect a nudge on many plays if the contact is legal. And all elbow contact is not a foul and the NCAA has made that very clear many times in their video. So it matters how and what the contact affected the players. Language or not, the concept is not different.

Peace

tref Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 818240)
No it is not. All contact is not considered a foul by rule. So a nudge would not be the same as pushing someone. Heck I expect a nudge on many plays if the contact is legal. And all elbow contact is not a foul and the NCAA has made that very clear many times in their video. So it matters how and what the contact affected the players. Language or not, the concept is not different.

Peace

We didnt see this play, would you agree that nudging an airborne shooter may not be excessive but it is unneccesary??

BTW:

Verb 1. nudge - to push against gently; "She nudged my elbow when she saw her friend enter the restaurant"
poke at, prod
jog - give a slight push to
elbow - shove one's elbow into another person's ribs
push, force - move with force, "He pushed the table into a corner"
2. nudge - push into action by pestering or annoying gently
push, bear on - press, drive, or impel (someone) to action or completion of an action; "He pushed her to finish her doctorate"

The word "push" is in there quite often :D

just another ref Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 818249)
We didnt see this play, would you agree that nudging an airborne shooter may not be excessive but it is unneccesary??

It may or may not be excessive. Even if it is unnecessary, it can still be incidental.

Sharpshooternes Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:04pm

It is not as if I had my mind made up but it is what I called. Reading some of the answers I think I got a little clarification. In my mind at the time of the call, this was not a legitimate play on the ball or excessive contact, but reading C above in the HS rules it specifically talks about it being to stop the clock or prevent it from starting. Perhaps I was off base with this call. More displacement for sure would have earned the INT but I probably should have given an +1 only.

Adam Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 818256)
I probably should have given an +1 only.

cringe

Sharpshooternes Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:07pm

[QUOTE=tref;818249]We didnt see this play, would you agree that nudging an airborne shooter may not be excessive but it is unneccesary??

Yes

bainsey Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 818210)
If the displacement is slight, I'll call the shooting foul and talk to the player.

If there's no displacement, no call.

If it's significant, an INT is likely the best option.

There it is. These are typically HTBT calls, but if you had to pin it down to words, I'd say this nails it.

Sharpshooternes Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 818257)
cringe

you don't agree?

Sharpshooternes Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 818262)
there it is. These are typically htbt calls, but if you had to pin it down to words, i'd say this nails it.

+1

Camron Rust Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 818236)
Fellas, I was just pointing out the differences in wording...

HS says excessive.
NCAA says excessive &/or unneccesary.

Whether they nudge or shove, its still a form of pushing. Airborne shooters dont get shoved or nudged from behind in my games. Just like an elbow hit or elbow tap... its still a foul.

Thats all :)

I guess you call ALL contact as an intentional foul because all of it is unnecessary.

Adam Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 818266)
you don't agree?

Just with the term "and one." Nothing wrong with it per se, just coach speak that makes me tune out a coach faster than "3 seconds" or "over the back."

Sharpshooternes Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:11pm

What would you like me to use?

Raymond Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 818272)
What would you like me to use?

And 1. :D

Adam Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 818272)
What would you like me to use?

Honestly, I would just use "shooting foul." But, I know what you meant, everyone here knows what you meant. It's not as big a deal as my response indicated.

tref Mon Jan 30, 2012 03:16pm

If I did that, I'm sure I'd be back to working a plethora of kiddie games on Saturday mornings instead of Saturday night 7pm ;)

IMO the defender running down an airborne shooter who's laying the ball up doesn't get to play last tag just because he got beat. Sometimes you just gotta let it go...

BTW I've never had to call more than one INT for this in a single game, if you know what I mean.


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