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-   -   Where would you stand? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/86522-where-would-you-stand.html)

Zoochy Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:42pm

Where would you stand?
 
There are 3 seconds left in the 3rd quarter. Team A has a throw-in on their end-line right where the 3-point line intersects the end-line. Team A has not been shooting 3's all game. This game is a JV boys with 2 officials.
Would you stand on the outside of the player? Thus standing beyond the sideline. This puts you about 20 feet away from the post players. Or would you put yourself between the basket and the player for the Throw-in?
I know the book says 'box-in the players'.

APG Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:22pm

I would put myself between the basket and player.

JRutledge Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:26pm

I would stay on the outside. It is about angle not distance.

Peace

Camron Rust Tue Jan 24, 2012 01:58am

I'd stand on the inside. The thrower is likely to obscure any view you might have of a play that goes to the inside. Get the clearest angle/line to see the likely play.

grunewar Tue Jan 24, 2012 05:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 816137)
I would put myself between the basket and player.

This is how I was taught too.

Eastshire Tue Jan 24, 2012 07:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 816137)
I would put myself between the basket and player.

How do you observe both the thrower-in and the players on the court if you stand on the inside?

bob jenkins Tue Jan 24, 2012 08:45am

Inside the player if the the official would be outside the 3-point line. Otherweise, outside the player.

So, in this play, I'd be inside.

There's not going to be much action way over on T's side, so T needs to expand his area to those players just outside the lane on L's side.

JugglingReferee Tue Jan 24, 2012 08:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy (Post 816132)
There are 3 seconds left in the 3rd quarter. Team A has a throw-in on their end-line right where the 3-point line intersects the end-line. Team A has not been shooting 3's all game. This game is a JV boys with 2 officials.
Would you stand on the outside of the player? Thus standing beyond the sideline. This puts you about 20 feet away from the post players. Or would you put yourself between the basket and the player for the Throw-in?
I know the book says 'box-in the players'.

Inside.

Eastshire Tue Jan 24, 2012 08:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 816191)
Inside the player if the the official would be outside the 3-point line. Otherweise, outside the player.

So, in this play, I'd be inside.

There's not going to be much action way over on T's side, so T needs to expand his area to those players just outside the lane on L's side.

Aren't you going to end up with L only being able to see the thrower-in and T trying to cover the other 9?

bob jenkins Tue Jan 24, 2012 09:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 816193)
Aren't you going to end up with L only being able to see the thrower-in and T trying to cover the other 9?

Not if the L is any good.

What do you do if A has the ball inbounds in L's corner? L doesn't (I hope) run out extra wide so s/he can be outside the play.

SNIPERBBB Tue Jan 24, 2012 09:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 816188)
How do you observe both the thrower-in and the players on the court if you stand on the inside?

Or the sideline if they do go outside...

Eastshire Tue Jan 24, 2012 09:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 816201)
Not if the L is any good.

What do you do if A has the ball inbounds in L's corner? L doesn't (I hope) run out extra wide so s/he can be outside the play.

No, and that's a fair point. The big difference though is A1 is in front of L instead of beside him. With A1 beside L, L has to turn his head towards the sideline far enough to see A1 which means he's looking away from the majority of the court. With A1 on the court, L can see A1 while looking towards the far endline which lets him see the majority of the court.

bob jenkins Tue Jan 24, 2012 09:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 816205)
No, and that's a fair point. The big difference though is A1 is in front of L instead of beside him. With A1 beside L, L has to turn his head towards the sideline far enough to see A1 which means he's looking away from the majority of the court. With A1 on the court, L can see A1 while looking towards the far endline which lets him see the majority of the court.

L can back up a little. L will have a "corridor" from about L's position (perhapds 1/2 way from the lane to the 3-point line) out to the FT line extended. The angle might go slightly toward the sideline.

APG Tue Jan 24, 2012 09:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 816188)
How do you observe both the thrower-in and the players on the court if you stand on the inside?

Back up and get as much depth as possible and use my peripheral vision to observe the thrower.

JRutledge Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:35am

I think in two person you stay outside because you still have sideline responsibility and the play is not only going to be in the lane. You have to make sacrifices as you always do in a 2 Person system. In 3 that is easier to suggest to go inside when you have other sets of eyes on the sideline. I would be so afraid I would miss a sideline play on a throw in which is more likely than a play inside. It would be the same look and I would have help there. There is no help on the sideline IMO.

Peace

stripes2255 Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:03am

I concur
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 816165)
I'd stand on the inside. The thrower is likely to obscure any view you might have of a play that goes to the inside. Get the clearest angle/line to see the likely play.

I learned from a veteran colleague of Camron's this method at a state tournament and now apply it myself. It clears you from the inbounder blocking your view of a quick pass to the post.

Tio Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy (Post 816132)
There are 3 seconds left in the 3rd quarter. Team A has a throw-in on their end-line right where the 3-point line intersects the end-line. Team A has not been shooting 3's all game. This game is a JV boys with 2 officials.
Would you stand on the outside of the player? Thus standing beyond the sideline. This puts you about 20 feet away from the post players. Or would you put yourself between the basket and the player for the Throw-in?
I know the book says 'box-in the players'.

IMO - I always try to keep all 10 players and my 2 partners (1 in this case) in my field of vision. If you stand on the inside, you are unable to help on any of the other 8 players other than the thrower-in and the immediate defender. In a 2 man game, with the trail official covering 8 players, this is a recipe for disaster. Second.... I have no idea how you can believeably cover your sideline on the chance there is an OOB immediately on the throw-in. If you stand on the outside, you are far from the basket but you have a good look and can help the crew.

Camron Rust Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 816193)
Aren't you going to end up with L only being able to see the thrower-in and T trying to cover the other 9?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tio (Post 816242)
IMO - I always try to keep all 10 players and my 2 partners (1 in this case) in my field of vision. If you stand on the inside, you are unable to help on any of the other 8 players other than the thrower-in and the immediate defender.

I fail to see why anyone thinks they need to watch the thrower. All he/she can do that you need to know about is step inbounds or leave the spot....both things that rarely happen that you can sense and then look for to confirm when they do happen.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tio (Post 816242)
In a 2 man game, with the trail official covering 8 players, this is a recipe for disaster. Second.... I have no idea how you can believeably cover your sideline on the chance there is an OOB immediately on the throw-in. If you stand on the outside, you are far from the basket but you have a good look and can help the crew.

Disagree. I'm no farther from the sideline than most plays when the ball is already inbounds. Why would the fact that it is a throw in make it harder for me to take 2-3 steps to get out to the sideline. Remember, we're talking a throwin at the 3-point line or wider, not close to the paint. I'd rather be in a position a few steps from the ideal sideline coverage position than a lot of steps from the ideal post coverage position.

Eastshire Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 816281)
I fail to see why anyone thinks they need to watch the thrower. All he/she can do that you need to know about is step inbounds or leave the spot....both things that rarely happen that you can sense and then look for to confirm when they do happen.

We also need to know when the pass in released. I'm not talking about staring at the thrower, but if you can't see him, you aren't doing the job properly. And I don't buy that you're going to pick up on the player stepping on the line if you're not watching the thrower.

Quote:

Disagree. I'm no farther from the sideline than most plays when the ball is already inbounds. Why would the fact that it is a throw in make it harder for me to take 2-3 steps to get out to the sideline. Remember, we're talking a throwin at the 3-point line or wider, not close to the paint. I'd rather be in a position a few steps from the ideal sideline coverage position than a lot of steps from the ideal post coverage position.
It's harder to get the the sideline because there is a player between you and where you need to be. I don't know about you, but I haven't figure out how to successfully move through a player.

Camron Rust Tue Jan 24, 2012 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 816285)
We also need to know when the pass in released. I'm not talking about staring at the thrower, but if you can't see him, you aren't doing the job properly. And I don't buy that you're going to pick up on the player stepping on the line if you're not watching the thrower.

It is pretty easy to tell when they release the ball without looking at it...it goes flying through the air. There is nothing that requires precise info on the timing of the release.

Most throwers are not that close to the line, you don't have anything to watch until they get near the line.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 816285)
It's harder to get the the sideline because there is a player between you and where you need to be. I don't know about you, but I haven't figure out how to successfully move through a player.

Behind and to the side. I'm not standing directly to their side.

In 2-man, you have to make compromises to get the best coverage....when the ball is that wide (outside the 3-point line) the best spot for the lead is just inside the 3-point line. You can see most possible sideline OOB situations from there just fine...even if you can't get all the way to the line....and you can get out there just fine when you need to...it is only 2-3 steps. It is really no different than having a ball in the post (you're not going to be in the corner to cover that) that gets kicked out to a player spotting up in the corner. You've got to hustle to cover both, but in 2-man, that is what you have to do.

Eastshire Tue Jan 24, 2012 01:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 816293)
It is pretty easy to tell when they release the ball without looking at it...it goes flying through the air. There is nothing that requires precise info on the timing of the release.

5 seconds to release the throw-in?

Quote:

Most throwers are not that close to the line, you don't have anything to watch until they get near the line.
And how exactly am I supposed to know their close when I'm not watching them?

Quote:

Behind and to the side. I'm not standing to their side.

In 2-man, you have to make compromises to get the best coverage....when the ball is that wide (outside the 3-point line) the best spot for the lead is just inside the 3-point line. You can see most likely OOB situations from there just fine...even if you can't get all the way to the line....and you can get out there just fine when you need to...it is only 2-3 steps. It is really no different than having a ball in the post (you're not going to be in the corner to cover that) that gets kicked out to a player spotting up in the corner. You've got to hustle to cover both, but in 2-man, that is what you have to do.
I agree with this, but I think it dictates staying outside of the thrower and being ready to hustle back in.

I get the general impression that most of you are working gyms with much more space behind the endlines than I work. I usually can't get more than half a step further back than the thrower and I never have a thrower more than a half-step from the boundary line.


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