Foul inside 0.3 seconds...

[bellnier]

I was in the stands at a closely contested B-V game this weekend. With 0.2 seconds on clock A1 inbounds ball under Team B basket to A2, ball is launched 85 feet and - swish! Ref signals no basket. The home crowd is livid. I sat there and shrugged, figuring I knew this particular rule. But it got me wondering - what if the player was fouled at the release? Would he be awarded 3 shots? This seems unlikely since A2 isn't making an attempt. How about no shots unless Team A is in Bonus? Help! Confused as always. Thanks in advance.
-Dave

[just another ref]

It can't be a try with .3 or less, so it can't be a shooting foul.

Right, no shots if the team is not in the bonus.

[rockyroad]

5.2.5 SITUATION C: With three-tenths of a second or less left in a tied game,
each team is in the bonus. Team A has a throw-in on the end line near their basket.
A1 throws the ball to A5 on the near block who catches the ball and quickly
shoots. A5 is fouled by B3 just prior to the end-of-period signal. The ball goes
through A's basket. RULING: Since A5 may not control the ball and attempt a try
with three-tenths of a second or less, A5 cannot score a goal and is not considered
in the act of shooting. However, B3's foul cannot be ignored and is considered
a common foul. A5 is awarded a one-and-one bonus free-throw situation
with the lane cleared. A5's free throw attempts will determine if the game is over
or if an overtime period is necessary. (4-41-6)

[bellnier]

Thanks. I was almost sure of the answer, but there was a little crack of doubt.

[stiffler3492]

I've always wondered about this rule. Who's to say that NOBODY can get a catch-and-shoot off in .3 seconds?

What if it happened, and it was clear that the shot was away before buzzer. Obviously a rule is a rule, and we have to enforce said rules, but do you guys think the NFHS will revisit this at all?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

I've always wondered about this rule. Who's to say that NOBODY can get a catch-and-shoot off in .3 seconds?

What if it happened, and it was clear that the shot was away before buzzer. Obviously a rule is a rule, and we have to enforce said rules, but do you guys think the NFHS will revisit this at all?

The original rule (so I've been told) was based on a study by the NBA. If those guys can't catch-and-shoot in <.3, ....

Oh yeah -- I think the NCAA ruling on the play is slightly different -- as soon as the ball is caught, the half is over. No 1-and-1 FTs.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

I've always wondered about this rule. Who's to say that NOBODY can get a catch-and-shoot off in .3 seconds?

What if it happened, and it was clear that the shot was away before buzzer. Obviously a rule is a rule, and we have to enforce said rules, but do you guys think the NFHS will revisit this at all?

1. The rules determine what counts as a try and what counts as a goal, just as they define winning and losing.

2. No goal.

3. No.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

I've always wondered about this rule. Who's to say that NOBODY can get a catch-and-shoot off in .3 seconds?

What if it happened, and it was clear that the shot was away before buzzer. Obviously a rule is a rule, and we have to enforce said rules, but do you guys think the NFHS will revisit this at all?

No, it's a done deal. Somebody, somewhere, did a study and decided that was a reasonable amount. If they do clearly catch and shoot before the buzzer, blame it on human reaction time if it makes you feel better. This actually happens quite often. One of my favorite calls, waving off a "good" basket and listening to the fans scream about it.

[APG]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

I've always wondered about this rule. Who's to say that NOBODY can get a catch-and-shoot off in .3 seconds?

What if it happened, and it was clear that the shot was away before buzzer. Obviously a rule is a rule, and we have to enforce said rules, but do you guys think the NFHS will revisit this at all?

The NBA did a study a while back and it was determined that the quickest a person could consistently catch and shoot was .3 seconds. And thus, their rule states that there must be .3 seconds on the clock for a catch and shoot.

NFHS (and NCAA I believe) has said that there must be more than .3 seconds for a catch and shoot.

[Adam]

Enough research was done before they did the rule, I don't expect them to change it.

[bellnier]

If I recall my sports history correctly, the rule was based on an incident with Trent Tucker 20 years or so ago. The 0.3 second cut-off was not arbitrarily chosen, but rather was based on studies conducted in Europe.
-Dave

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This actually happens quite often. One of my favorite calls, waving off a "good" basket and listening to the fans scream about it.

If this "happens quite often"...maybe it's time to do another study.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

If this "happens quite often"...maybe it's time to do another study.

Not necessarily. Maybe just an indication that timers are slow at starting the clock.

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Not necessarily. Maybe just an indication that timers are slow at starting the clock.

Especially when the home team makes those shots. IJS

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by just another ref

. This actually happens quite often. One of my favorite calls, waving off a "good" basket and listening to the fans scream about it.

Really?

How many times per season do you have it happen in your games?

I had it once all last season, and so far not a single time this season.