Player Raising His/Her Hand When They Commit a Foul
 

Was that ever an official rule or is it just something players did? If it was a rule when did it change?

I believe it was. At least I have heard some "old-timers" say that previously.

Peace

There's two things that go when you get old: memory, . . . and I can't remember what the other thing is. :confused: Anyway . . .

Hand up after official's birddog that a foul was committed was still a rule back when I started back in '76, back in the college days. The only trouble we had then was when players would put a hand up and then swipe it down in an unsportsmanlike fashion. Usually good for at least one T late in each game. Not sure if it was a state thing or Fed thing back then. Must've changed sometime after that because it wasn't by rule a requirement later when I then resumed activity in the coaching ranks. Of course, those old days still had real jump balls -- oops, sorry, I know that's a sensitive subject with some. :)

Yes, it was a rule...good and well before my time. I believe it was a technical foul if a player did not raise their hand in a timely matter.

Honestly, I have to wonder what in the hell the rules makers were thinking with that one.

I do remember when players did that and honestly it seemed to squelch any complaining. Maybe that was not the case as the rule went away, but players did seem to accept an official's call more than they do now.

Peace

I can guarantee failing to raise your hand on a personal foul was a technical foul in the 1973-74 season. Not sure before that--raising the hand may have been recommended previously, or maybe failure to raise in defiance could have been T'd--but for that one season at least, it was mandatory.

Went a long way in costing us a conference championship. Bad memory.

I believe it was the next season, when the rule and penalty were scrapped.

Did the officials report the fouls, too, back then?

Yes. The raised hand was supposed to assist the scorekeeper with confirmation of who committed the foul.

Furthermore, as an indication of how things changed since then, there was a lot more "Yep, I did it" kinda attitude common with players back then. Hardly ever did we have to tell a player to raise his/her hand. When the birddog nailed them, they most normally fessed up, the hand was raised and lowered, the foul was reported, and life went on. :)
Usually followed soon by a jump ball. :(

And when it was a rule, and even afterward, the wrong player often raised his hand intentionally to try to take a foul from another player. It still happens occasionally.

In more modern times, I've had players try to take the fall for their teammates by raising their hand, thinking I'll give the foul to them instead of their star big man.

Don't fall for that!

Yep, have had that tried in a couple of my games as well. Attention to detail while reporting is a good thing (official scorer, that is).

It was a dumb practice, IMO. As was the bird-dog. As was, without a doubt, the requirement of the trail official to initiate a rotation across the court in order to put the officials "in the Cadillac."

Some things change for good reasons.

OTOH, I still think the trail going tableside on a foul in 2-person is awful. I think the person counting, chopping, etc. should be opposite. Nobody asked me, though.

I can guarantee that failing to raise your hand on a PF was a technical in the 1993-1994 season in IA. One of my best friends got Td up in a JV game for that offense. He thought the foul was on someone else and was listening to our coach give instructions and not paying attention to the official asking him twice to raise his hand. No third request came...whack!

Really? Seldom does anyone raise their hand that I've seen around here, let alone the wrong player.

Just the same, would any decent scorekeeper pay attention to a raised arm instead of the reporting official?

I'm not talking about confusing the scorekeeper. In a crowd, are you always 100% sure who committed the foul?

I see more hands up showing " I didn't foul" than ones showing they did

Probably Iowa's rule. Would not have been a NFHS rule in '94.

We had a kid raise his hand on Tuesday night to try to draw a fifth foul away from a teammate. Didn't work.

No it wasn't. It was a phantom rule, only enforced by relic officials who never bothered to read about rule changes.

Did you T him up for lying to you?
:D

"Call it on me" is an order. ;)

Yep, really. Believe it or not, some coaches actually encourage the behavior on the off chance it might possibly get a foul pulled away from one of their better players. Scandalous.

Didn't say it happened often; just that it has happened before.

:D

Beliveable, for sure. Still, I question its effectiveness. How many scorekeepers look for the raised hand, as opposed to the official's report?

I'm pretty sure jar addressed this, but just in case you didn't read it:

It's not meant to confuse the scorer. It's meant to "convince" the officials.

I'll be honest here. Sometimes I appreciate the help. Two defenders in the face of the shooter. One gets a piece of the arm. Sometimes you just can't be certain which one it was. Do we have a volunteer? OK, thank you, young man.

I've had scorekeepers who start recording the foul (making the assumption that they know who I'm calling it on) before I get over to the reporting area... even without the whole "raised hand" thing. And yes, at one point it caused a problem when the scorekeeper had a star player's 5th foul when the team's coach thought it was his player's 4th. (Home team, in this case, so I told the coach we had to go by what the official book said and that if he had a problem with it, he should make sure the scorekeeper pays attention). Luckily, it was a 7th grade game with about 20 seconds left, so no major harm done.

As a consequence, I now tell the scorekeeper at every game that I will make eye contact with them and that they should not record anything until AFTER I make my report.

He did. I missed it.

That doesn't seem much more effective, either. Once I have the foul, I'm pretty much locked on, even if I have to take a second or two to get the number.

Its effectiveness isn't the issue; the intent is. I did it when I played. And as jar notes, if I've got two players who have committed a foul on the same shooter, I might just go with the volunteer if there's no other reason to choose the other one.

The Foul Is On ...
 

We had a game announcer announce the foul before I got over to the reporting area. That didn't last too long.

I believe there's a story about Joe Crawford doing the same thing with a PA announcer many moons ago...I want to say it was the Bulls PA announcer.

You sure?
 

If that's true, then every single official that did our JV games that year was a relic official. In fact, the requirement to raise a hand was brought up in every captain's meeting that year. Maybe it was just a conference or area thing.

Well in most mechanics that are written, bird dogging has not gone away. And it still has its place if you ask me.

Peace

I like it, in certain situations. Two guys giving the open palm "WHO? ME??" What better way to inform one than to point him out.

Your team had a T in every game?

I played high school ball (in Iowa) up until the 91-92 season; it was not a requirement then. I first started officiating in the 93-94 season, and while I was by no means an expert (I convinced a partner that the coach could choose any player to shoot FTs when his shooter was injured), I'm pretty sure this wasn't in there.

In my playing days, I recall hearing that the rule was no longer in effect but some officials still enforced it (for whatever reason).

If you think that was a long time ago...
 

...does anyone remember the table crew having five numbered (1-5) ping pong type paddles? Bookkeeper/clock operator would hold up the respective numbered paddle to indicate # of fouls on that particular player after official reported.

Was that ever a requirement, or just something some tables did? I've also seen tables with light standards, and they'd light up the appropriate number.

I may do it once or twice a game.

What I'm talking about (being ridiculous) is the requirement to thrust the fist straight up in the air (as if startled) and then make an exaggerated palm-down birddog at the fouler's waist. On EVERY foul.

I totally agree with you about doing it on every foul. That was silly when a play is on the perimeter and everyone knew who the foul was on. I was more referring to the play near the basket where there is a possible crash, but the player from behind pulls his arm and clearly fouls from your angle, and the player that crashed into the shooter thinks it was him. And I do use it sparingly. Not sure I use it every game, but I do use it.

Peace

Here's a good video:

Bird dog, belted pants, Byron collars, chair thrown across the court.... :D

Bobby Knight throws a chair (High Quality) - YouTube

Football isn't the only sport where the officiating has changed a lot over the years.

Hey where'd the three point line go? :p

Who Let The Birddogs Out ???
 

From the IAABO mechanics manual (page 52, A, 4) When clarification is necessary, extend the other arm, with palm down, toward the fouler's midsection.

I don't have access to a NFHS manual.

Similis
 

NFHS 2.4.2.B.1. - "When clarification is needed, delay and extend the other hand, palm down toward the fouling player's hips (bird-dog signal)." And the faceless Mr. Pictograph guy at the back of the books shows illustration #5, the pic with the "stop clock for foul", with the parenthetical phrase "optional bird dog".
Don't see it much here, only when clarification is indeed necessary.

As a junior in HS, during the 73-74 season, we had to raise our hands. As a senior, it became optional. The rationale for the change was twofold--the sportsmanship issue as mentioned above, and the fed did not want players to "feel guilty" by having to raise hands after committing a foul. I did not read the whole thread, so MTD may have already been to his attic. :D

The NBA rule changed in 1975. Up until that time, the players had to raise their hands. I believe that the rule changed while I was in HS (mid 1970s).

My most vivid memory of the rule was during a junior game in which I participated as a player. We were playing a team for the fifth time during the same season -- we met them several times in tournaments. We had lost the previous four meetings. We got ahead of them during the first half. A couple of their players were known hot heads. They ended up having numerous technical fouls assessed against them for raising both hands in the air and slamming them down. They had five or so T's called on them. Of course, the technical fouls did NOT count as team fouls. As I recall, we only got one free throw for each technical foul. We did win the game.

If Iowa was using NFHS Rules back then, then your friend should not have received a TF because the "raise the hand" requirement had been removed many years before that.

MTD, Sr.

That was the first year I started officiating (in college), and it was not a part of the IHSAA or the IGHSAU adaptations.

I do, however, recall being warned when I played (late 80s early 90s) that if an official asked you to raise your hand, you were better off doing it regardless of what the actual rule said.

Sort of like officials enforcing the old lack of action (or whatever it was called) rule long after it disappeared from the book.

I guess it is not a correctable error at this point.