The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   That oh...crap...feeling (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/85542-oh-crap-feeling.html)

Welpe Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:23pm

That oh...crap...feeling
 
Got to experience that this last Saturday at the end of a close girl's JV game. Home team is up by 5 or so points when there is a scrum near the division line for a loose ball. Home team player reaches for the ball but doesn't control it when the home coach starts screaming for a time out. Ball is never controlled by home player and a visiting team player recovers it and scores an uncontested layup.

Ball is collected by the home player and is at her disposable when I hear the screaming for a timeout again. Thinking it was the home coach, I hit my whistle and grant it...realizing it was the visiting team coach. I wanted to disappear into the floor.

I told my partner what we had, gave the visiting team the timeout (their last) and was kicking myself for screwing this one up. Visiting team coach knew he got away with one based upon the look on his face.

Fortunately the erroneously granted timeout was not a factor in the game but I am still miffed I screwed it up. I at least know exactly what I did wrong...serves me right for assuming something.

The best part of this situation was my partner's reaction after I granted the TO. He could tell I was upset with myself and told me "Hey it's over now. At least you knew right away what you did wrong. You've called a good game, forget it and finish it strong. Keep your head in the game."

After the game he gave me some tips about handling those situations and we ended up having a detailed post game, which was a treat in itself. It's nice to work with quality partners like that.

Guess I'll be adding that to the list of officiating mistakes I never want to make again.

fiasco Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:40pm

Well, it says a lot about what kind of official you are that you let this (relatively) minor mixup get you upset at yourself. And, like your partner said, you know what you did, so now you can learn from it and move on.

I've done a lot better this year of hearing "timeout," pausing in my mind what is going on at the exact moment I hear it, taking a quick glance at the bench if a player is in control, and then granting the timeout, regardless of what's happened after. I've had a few times this year where I've heard the timeout request, and during the period between me hearing it and granting it, the ball has squirted out, and the opposing coach complained that the player didn't have control. "Doesn't matter, coach. Player had control when the timeout was requested. Just because there was a lapse between the request and my whistle doesn't make the request invalid."

Always remember you dictate the pace of things out there on the court, so just slow down half a tick and things will run a bit smoother.

bainsey Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 811632)
I at least know exactly what I did wrong...serves me right for assuming something.

Learn and move on. Such mistakes motivate us not to make them in again, particularly when we move to more meaningful games.

mbyron Mon Jan 09, 2012 01:43pm

VC's request didn't start when the ball was dead? Sometimes they grab it quickly, but you can legitimately grant the TO because the request was made in a timely fashion.

I know you know this -- just pointing it out for general consumption. Of course, you should "visually confirm" that the (proper) coach is requesting the TO.

Welpe Mon Jan 09, 2012 01:46pm

I don't think it did. I didn't hear the scream from the VC coach until the player had the ball at her disposal already.

Rich Mon Jan 09, 2012 01:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 811678)
I don't think it did. I didn't hear the scream from the VC coach until the player had the ball at her disposal already.

It probably started while the ball was dead. I wouldn't worry about this too much -- other than to say that this is a standard time for a coach to request a timeout and having a lot of awareness there is crucial.

mbyron Mon Jan 09, 2012 01:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 811681)
It probably started while the ball was dead. I wouldn't worry about this too much -- other than to say that this is a standard time for a coach to request a timeout and having a lot of awareness there is crucial.

That's precisely where I was heading.

Loudwhistle2 Mon Jan 09, 2012 01:56pm

Fiasco "Doesn't matter, coach. Player had control when the timeout was requested. Just because there was a lapse between the request and my whistle doesn't make the request invalid."

This is a great line that I use a couple of times a year.

Welpe Mon Jan 09, 2012 01:59pm

Well that's one reason why I don't think I should have granted it because I was expecting a TO request but didn't hear anything until after the inbounder had the ball for a couple of seconds. The VC coach did not have an "indoor voice" and I'd be surprised if I missed a TO request from him during the dead ball.

I'm over it now but was thankful for the pick me up from my P and the lessons learned. I'll get there yet.

tref Mon Jan 09, 2012 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle2 (Post 811687)
Fiasco "Doesn't matter, coach. Player had control when the timeout was requested. Just because there was a lapse between the request and my whistle doesn't make the request invalid."

This is a great line that I use a couple of times a year.

I agree, but to take it up a level & not have that conversation with the coach at all, I've started saying it at the spot. "Before white had team control, timeout blue."

BillyMac Mon Jan 09, 2012 05:34pm

5-8 ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle2 (Post 811687)
"Doesn't matter, coach. Player had control when the timeout was requested. Just because there was a lapse between the request and my whistle doesn't make the request invalid."

Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official: Grants a player’s/head coach’s oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when: The ball is at the disposal or in control of a player of his/her team.

gdudik Mon Jan 09, 2012 09:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 811767)
Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official: Grants a player’s/head coach’s oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when: The ball is at the disposal or in control of a player of his/her team.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle2 (Post 811687)
Fiasco "Doesn't matter, coach. Player had control when the timeout was requested. Just because there was a lapse between the request and my whistle doesn't make the request invalid."

I'm confused. BillyMac, are you saying that the timeout can only be GRANTED (not requested) when the appropriate team is in control of the ball? In otherwords, LoudWhistle shouldn't be doing what he says he does in granting the TO after team control has changed?

Rich Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 811767)
Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official: Grants a player’s/head coach’s oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when: The ball is at the disposal or in control of a player of his/her team.

I'm granting a timeout when it's properly requested. If it takes me a split second to put air in my whistle, oh well.

bainsey Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:22am

A question for the veterans:

I get the impression that turning to verify the source of a time out request is a relatively new thing. Were you ever taught to whistle a time out request ASAP, to make sure the whistle sounds before the ball becomes loose?

Cobra Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 811833)
I get the impression that turning to verify the source of a time out request is a relatively new thing. Were you ever taught to whistle a time out request ASAP, to make sure the whistle sounds before the ball becomes loose?

Allowing someone who isn't a player to call for a timeout is a relatively new thing.

Adam Tue Jan 10, 2012 01:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 811693)
I agree, but to take it up a level & not have that conversation with the coach at all, I've started saying it at the spot. "Before white had team control, timeout blue."

No reason to lie here. Just say you screwed up and move on. As mistakes go, this is truly minor.

Lying about it when everyone knows better just makes you look dishonest.

Edit: Didn't mean to imply you recommend lying or do it. Just getting back to the OP. This one isn't one to lose sleep over.

BillyMac Tue Jan 10, 2012 07:00am

Look Before You Leap ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra (Post 811838)
Allowing someone who isn't a player to call for a timeout is a relatively new thing.

And that someone who isn't a player can only be the head coach, not an assistant coach, a team member on the bench, or a fan sitting behind the bench. Hot, single, moms can't request timeouts in basketball, unless they're the head coach. I don't care how hot they are.

BillyMac Tue Jan 10, 2012 07:02am

It Is What It Is ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gdudik (Post 811808)
Are you saying?

I'm not saying anything. I'm only quoting the rule.

BillyMac Tue Jan 10, 2012 06:27pm

Check Your Local Listings ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 811767)
Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official: Grants a player’s/head coach’s oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when: The ball is at the disposal or in control of a player of his/her team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 811833)
I get the impression that turning to verify the source of a time out request is a relatively new thing. Were you ever taught to whistle a time out request ASAP, to make sure the whistle sounds before the ball becomes loose?

Here's what we've been taught. This only works for my little corner of Connecticut.

If a player is holding, or dribbling, the ball, and his coach requests a timeout, while in your visible field, or when you're are 100% sure that his coach is the one who is calling, "Timeout", then immediately grant the request for the timeout.

If the coach is not in your visible field, or you are not 100% sure that his coach is the one who is calling, "Timeout", then don't grant the request. Verify who is requesting the timeout, and then once verified, turn back to the coach's player, and if he's not holding, or dribbling, the ball, do not grant the request. If he still is holding, or dribbling, the ball, then go ahead and grant the request.

My interpreter doesn't want us granting timeouts while a defender, after stealing the ball, is driving for an uncontested layup.

Again, this is strictly a local interpretation, based on the wording of the rule, as written.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:45pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1