Last night. Just a couple of minutes into the game, defender elbows player in the nose. Both myself and my partner call flagrant, and toss the kid.
During half-time, a parent comes up to me and asks,
"WHY DID YOU CALL THAT!?" (incredulously)
So I explain that an elbow to the face that ends up in a bloddy nose, is flagrant. He says, "THAT'S JUST PART OF THE GAME!," (OhhhhhhhKayyyyyyyy?????):confused: and that he didn't mean to do it. "That very well may be" says I, but it was unnecessary AND excessive and that's why it was flagrant.:p
The parent (pointing a finger in my face) says, "THERE'S
NOTHING IN THE RULE BOOK THAT SAYS THAT!!!!!!!" To which I reply, "Ok, thank you" and my conversation is done.
Love it. :D:D:D

Hmmmm.
 

Drake,
My line for a flagrant foul is that the elbow thrower will have had to intentionally (<i> as opposed to accidentally and due to momentum, balance or skill</i> ) whipped his wing to 'clear out', to 'intimidate' or to 'make contact'.
I think I could find a rule to support that stand.
Otherwise, I merely have an "owey".
mick

Re: Hmmmm.
 

Does this mean you wouldn't have even a common foul? An intentional foul doesn't necessarily have to be intentional, as we all know. . .

Re: Re: Hmmmm.
 

YU.P., Chuck,
Illegal contact could be called.
I did not consider personal or intentional fouls by legal or illegal players, I was just talking about the flagrant foul and how I have drawn my line.

<hr>
Tigers sweep Orioles.

Re: Re: Re: Hmmmm.
 

Gotcha.

Quote:

Tigers sweep Orioles.

Trammell's doing something right. I'm glad for him. He seems to be one of the good guys. But then, so did Puckett. . . :(

I think this is one of the most useful responses to all parents, and many coaches, when they are screaming and carrying on. As long as it's not too sarcastic, it really seems to pour cold water on the flames. I'm glad to see others use it with success.

Had a similar situation on Tuesday in a Spring League game. Some rough play in the post and then a hold on the help. After the whistle, Player A jabs Player B (Defender) in chest. I whack a "T". Player B gets in A's face and starts taunting as A is trying to walk away. WHACK on B. The head coach (who is not coaching) for A goes ballistic wondering why we are throwing T's in Spring League. I explain to the super that we will shoot the Bonus for the hold, then Team B will shoot the T, then Team A will shoot the T and it will be Team A's ball on the side. That was too much for the coach and he stormed off.
Come to find out, as this was the boys team from my wife's school, he did not see the initial elbow and he thought I ejected his player. He asked my wife to pass along his apologies!

You mean, as in, "Oh, thank you. I hadn't realized that. I hate to admit this, but you obviously study the rulebook much more than I do. I can only squeeze in about 4 hours a week. You know, for someone of your obvious emotional and intellectual stature to take time away from sitting on your lazy butt and correct my obvious misunderstanding of the rules is a real honor for me. Thank you. Thank you. [bowing] Thank you."

I will try to use this at my AAU girls' games this Saturday. Thanks for the tip, Juulie! :D

Awww...Chuck's havin' a bad day...

"Ball ball ball ball ball ball ball ball...."

:)

Heck no. Not at all. Just brushing up for my games Saturday, that's all. My sarcasm is a bit rusty after not working in over a month.

Gotta find those earplugs, too. . .

[/b]

Awww...Chuck's havin' a bad day...

[/B][/QUOTE]JR to the RESCUE!!

http://www.uselessgraphics.com/cart96.gif

In case I wasn't clear. . . Heck, no!!! ;)

Davism - "One of the voices in my head told me to".

If their questioning you on rules but just won't believe you just calmly ask if they want to bet $100 on it. Works almost every time. This is for non-school games only. AAU, etc. I haven't used it in a regular season game.

Nah,just tell 'em that the winner gets to watch the rest of the game. :D

I made this bet last year with a Mother (who was also a "Mutha") regarding over the back. She came up to my partner and me at half-time (G-12 girls, AAU) and told us that we missed calling "over the back" 6 times in the first half. I pulled my rule book from my bag and politely told her that if she could show me in the book where "over the back" was listed as a foul, I would give her a $100 bill. If it wasn't there, she owed me a $100 bill. She looked for about 5 minutes, told me to "stuff it" and walked away. She still owes me $100. My partner cracked up at her actions.

Yeah, but I could have made this same bet regarding the term "jump stop" until last season when the committee put it in some commentary at the back.
So what's my point? Well, I don't have one.

Hey, Fletch. I have a question on the administration of the technicals. On a double tech, the FTs are skipped, and you go to the possession arrow, right? Is this different because the technicals, technically, weren't simultaneous?

In NFHS rules, fouls and "T's" are administered in sequence. In the NCAA, I believe, you would resort to the possession arrow, but am not sure about shooting the FT's. (Some of our esteemed NCAA fellows/ladies can pick that up.)
Therefore:
Holding foul - Team A 1 and 1
Technical on Team A - Two FT's Team B
Delay
Tech on Team B - Two FT's Team A w/ball out opposite Table

"After the whistle, Player A jabs Player B (Defender) in chest. I whack a "T". Player B gets in A's face and starts taunting as A is trying to walk away. WHACK on B."

Coach,
I, too, would have considered a double-T as opposed to the False double. The reason being that even though there was a "delay", the action and reaction that precipitated the two fouls
<LI>was <u>approximately</u> at the same time;
<LI>was the result of a singular act;
<LI>was involving only two players.

Thus, I agree with you, no throws.

Had the players been moved (<i>ie. away from the lane, to the other end</i>), had the first foul been reported, had there been some measureable time where the second player had had a chance to think about what he was doing, then, I think, I would use the False-double-T
mick

I think that the solutions presented by both fletch and mick can be supported from the (NF) rules. This sounds like you had to see it to know if the Ts were at approximately the same time or not. Personally, my guideline is that if I have time to blow the whistle, spit it out, then put it back in to blow a second time, then it's a FDF. If both fouls occur before I can get the whistle in my mouth for the first one, then it's a double T. That's a very rough guideline, but it works for me.

And just to be clear. . .
In the NCAA, FDFs are administered the same way as Fed. However, double fouls are put back in play at the POI (unless intentional or flagrant). With double fouls, no FTs are shot.

Chuck

That works for me too.

It doesn't work for me, I want to have the only right answer!!!JK
After the 1st T Player B started clapping and saying stuff that wasn't all that bad, but when Player A tried to walk away, he kept up with him talking directly too him. I stared at him for a few seconds hoping he would stop but he didn't. So whack.
Did I understand that in NCAA this would have been handled the same way with the exception of the ball being placed in bounds at POI?

For me this would have been the dreaded and infamous False Double Foul. Then you shoot free throws at each end, penalizing them in the order then occurred. That's Fed. No clue about anything else.

I agree with Juulie. FDF, shoot all the FTs. In Fed, give the ball to the team who shot the last FTs. In NCAA, you'd go back to where the ball was before the first T.

Fletch,it's your call.The rule(FED 4-19-7d)says that they occur at "approximately the same time".If you feel that there is a time lag between the T's,the proper call can then be a false double foul made up of 2 T's.

Actually,that's pretty much what Dan,Chuck and mick have said already.

just a thought.
 

fletch_irwin_m,

...when Player A tried to walk away, he kept up with him talking directly too him. I <s>stared at him for a few seconds hoping he would stop but he didn't.</s> <i>said "Enough". So <I>I didn't have to </I>whack <I>him, too</I>.

I believe I used the word Easy as I stared at him. Not focused on my posts today. I need to tighten up.

The point is...the committee cost you an easy $100 :D

While the term "jump stop" wasn't found in the rule book, the definition for it was. However, nowhere in the rule book is "over the back" described or defined.

I'm glad you guys agree. If you ever see that lady, remind her she owes me $100 and I'll buy the brown pop.