PCF or no-call?
 

Varsity boys scrimmage. A1 drives the lane and plows into B1 who has established legal guarding position. A1 goes down in a heap. B1, built like a truck, doesn't even budge. I'm prepared to call a PCF, but hold off when B1 doesn't move an inch. If he'd been displaced at all, it was a no-brainer PCF.

So I'm torn between two contradictory guidelines in this sitch: 1) train wreck in the paint should get a whistle and 2) no displacement of the defender = no advantage = no call.

Coach asked about the no-call and I explained my position, but what say you?

I agree with most train wrecks in the paint philosophy, but in my mind, there needs to be more than one car down to meet the definition of one. And 4-19-1 supports a no-call in cases like this, IMO, regarding the player being illegally contacted not being put at a disadvantage by the actions of the other player.

Unless the contact stunned the defender so that he couldn't make a follow up play...play on unless A1 ended up traveling.

When I discuss this in my clinics, I refer to this as the Spud Webb/Shaq collision. What ya got? No matter how bad it looks, sometimes it's nothing.....what advantage was gained?

Good way to look at it.

Do your younger guys know who that is? ;)

Don't remember him but I do remember muggsey bogues.

Lol! Mugsey Bogues is the head coach at United Faith Christian Academy in Charlotte, NC. I worked his team's game last Thursday night.

Chirped for two and half quarters, until I gave him a stop sign in the 3rd and told him I had heard enough. Never heard another word. ;)

You mean there are two guards that came out of Wake Forest who have no clue on the rules?:confused:

At halftime, I chopped my hand about chest high and told my partners, "I've had Mugsey up to here." :D

Nice guy, just chirped about everything. It's his first year coaching. I explained his AD during a 4th quarter TO that when he complains about something every trip down the floor officials aren't going to listen and how he needs to pick his battles.

That's fine for NBE. But if a shot went up, I've got a foul: I don't want A to score after that contact, and I don't want anyone stepping on the kid if there's rebounding.

What does you wanting or not wanting A to score have anything to do with contact that occurs??

If A commits a borderline foul, they're not getting the benefit of the doubt and scoring.

Pardon me, but what is a "borderline foul"?

I've got to disagree...that isn't a foul in an NBA, NCAA, or high school game IMO.

It's a good point.....
 

The adults do.

But, to demonstrate my point, I take the shortest kid and the largest adult and put them at either end of the classroom and I tell the adult to stand there. Then I tell the young man to run as fast as he can right at the adult. He usually looks at me and gives me the "seriously?" :eek: look.

I then discuss the play and ask them what do ya got? It get my point across of LGP, charge, block and inadvertent contact.

Creates a good discussion.

PS - I stop the young boy long before the collision. ;)

Spuds MacKenzie ???
 

Man. Are you showing your age.

I Hate It When That Happens ...
 

Man. I hate it when you get a real good look at the defense, have them in a legal position, then they get smacked into by the dribbler, hard, you sound the whistle to call the easiest player control foul you've ever called, sell the call with the best player control foul signal you've ever signaled, and the defender doesn't go down. Been there. Done that. More than once, or twice, in thirty-one years.

Years ago I had a girls' 7th grade game where A1 (her team's PG and barely 4'-06" tall) does a spin move against B1 and when she spins she slams into B2 (about 5-'10" tall and about 165 lbm), she manages to hold onto the ball as she falls to the floor. Everybody and screaming for a foul against B2 and all I have is traveling by A1.

MTD, Sr.

I am much younger than most people on this board, and everyone I know that follows basketball knows about Spud Webb and most definitely about Shaq.

Shhh...it's cute when they wistfully ruminate about how old they are. ;)

What's a "borderline foul?"

B did his job of stoppng the drive. B wasn't disadvantaged by the contact. A didn't get an advantage by the contact.

No foul, count the basket (as I read the OP).

"Coach, I'm not penalizing a player for being big. He established LGP and did nothing wrong. Play on."

this is NOT a train wreck....this is a travel by A1.

not a travel
 

It wasn't a travel, A1 crashed to the floor after the release. Thanks for the support for my no-call.

That's a bail out...for the official. Works under some scenarios, but sometimes you have to suck it up and be ready to explain to the coach that a brick wall doesn't always initiate contact.

Never heard of a brick wall initiating contact unless it fell to the ground...

Never seen a brick wall fall forward?

Not lately, at least not with some unfortunate ball handler running towards it.

If the defender had LGP, and remained in that position, then you have nothing or a charge.

It happens. It's called a block. :)

It wouldn't be a brick wall then...just an ugly block wall.