Should I Have Been More Patient?

[ref3808]

Girls 8th Grade, Top division in a very competitive league.

First half, during the first 4-5 min coach has had a comment on just about every call. He requests a time out, and as I go to the table he approaches me on the floor and again questions calls. I tell him that I don't mind questions at an appropriate time, but that he cannot continue to question every ruling that I or my partner make. He turns and in front of his team says loudly, "you guys need to call it both ways" and he gives me the dismissive hand wave.

I thought at that point he had earned the T I assessed. Should I have walked away?

After the game he approached both officials, shook our hands, and asked me why I assessed the T? (in this league there is usually no room for officials so we are generally in the gym and on the floor after/between games)

He obviously didn't think his comment deserved a technical and even mentioned that he's directed that comment to other officials with no response from them.

[fiasco]

Th dismissive hand wave usually gets a T from me (gave one last week in fact). Coaches don't get to show up the officials for free.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ref3808

Girls 8th Grade, Top division in a very competitive league.

First half, during the first 4-5 min coach has had a comment on just about every call. He requests a time out, and as I go to the table he approaches me on the floor and again questions calls. I tell him that I don't mind questions at an appropriate time, but that he cannot continue to question every ruling that I or my partner make. He turns and in front of his team says loudly, "you guys need to call it both ways" and he gives me the dismissive hand wave.

I thought at that point he had earned the T I assessed. Should I have walked away?

After the game he approached both officials, shook our hands, and asked me why I assessed the T? (in this league there is usually no room for officials so we are generally in the gym and on the floor after/between games)

He obviously didn't think his comment deserved a technical and even mentioned that he's directed that comment to other officials with no response from them.

Whack. He's trying to show you up and there's no better place or way to set the ground rules.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by ref3808

Girls 8th Grade, Top division in a very competitive league.

First half, during the first 4-5 min coach has had a comment on just about every call. He requests a time out, and as I go to the table he approaches me on the floor and again questions calls. I tell him that I don't mind questions at an appropriate time, but that he cannot continue to question every ruling that I or my partner make. He turns and in front of his team says loudly, "you guys need to call it both ways" and he gives me the dismissive hand wave.

I thought at that point he had earned the T I assessed. Should I have walked away?

After the game he approached both officials, shook our hands, and asked me why I assessed the T? (in this league there is usually no room for officials so we are generally in the gym and on the floor after/between games)

He obviously didn't think his comment deserved a technical and even mentioned that he's directed that comment to other officials with no response from them.

Nip it in the bud. I've found that you have a short period of time to prevent a T. So you need to warn him quickly that his actions are not welcomed.

As for the actions that he did do - he's definitely getting a T.

[SNIPERBBB]

With the hand wave its an easy T.

(Its fun T'ing up people you will never see isn't it?)

[SAK]

He waved you off? That is basically automatic, he made the decision for you. T and don't lose any sleep over it.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Nip it in the bud.

About five years ago, I was working with a young (probably mid-20s) guy who, at a break, asked me if he should have T'd up a coach. I told him yes, that you need to "nip it in the bud". He gave me a strange look and said, "Why would I want to nip some guys butt?" It wasn't a joke, he just misheard me, but it was pretty funny.

[Adam]

You tried to warn him. Even without the hand wave, making that comment immediately after being warned should earn him a T.

If he wants to question that, "Coach, I had just warned you, and you proceeded to question my integrity."

I have no problem with discussing this with a coach in this type of setting as long as he's polite and respectful (I just did it last week when a coach asked why he didn't get a foul call when his shooter jumped into a defender rather than pull up for a last second 10 foot shot trailing by 1), they might learn something. If he continues with the "other officials" garbage, shut the conversation down, "Coach, I answered why I called it, I don't think there's anything else to discuss." Do it all professionally and respectfully, of course.

[JRutledge]

I am not big on the "wave" T that so many love to use. I think that just takes away thinking as to what other things are said and done. I have no problem with the T, but I hope there was more to it than the "wave."

Then again I am less tolerant of coaches at that level. Coaches need to coach their kids and not us more so at that level.

Peace

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by ref3808

After the game he approached both officials, shook our hands, and asked me why I assessed the T?

"Because you gave me an order, coach."

Aside from that, I'm with Snaqs. It's not like the guy wasn't warned.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not big on the "wave" T that so many love to use. I think that just takes away thinking as to what other things are said and done. I have no problem with the T, but I hope there was more to it than the "wave."

Then again I am less tolerant of coaches at that level. Coaches need to coach their kids and not us more so at that level.

Peace

I hate when a coach asks a question and then when I try to answer, he essentially tells me to get away from him and leave him alone. When the wave is used that way, it pretty much shuts down communication for the evening.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ref3808

Girls 8th Grade, Top division in a very competitive league.

First half, during the first 4-5 min coach has had a comment on just about every call. He requests a time out, and as I go to the table he approaches me on the floor and again questions calls. I tell him that I don't mind questions at an appropriate time, but that he cannot continue to question every ruling that I or my partner make. He turns and in front of his team says loudly, "you guys need to call it both ways" and he gives me the dismissive hand wave.

I thought at that point he had earned the T I assessed. Should I have walked away?

After the game he approached both officials, shook our hands, and asked me why I assessed the T? (in this league there is usually no room for officials so we are generally in the gym and on the floor after/between games)

He obviously didn't think his comment deserved a technical and even mentioned that he's directed that comment to other officials with no response from them.

You were more than patient during the first 4-5 minutes of the game.

The "waving off" combined with his loud statement immediately following you answering his question are the perfect storm for a 'T' in this situation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I hate when a coach asks a question and then when I try to answer, he essentially tells me to get away from him and leave him alone. When the wave is used that way, it pretty much shuts down communication for the evening.

I agree with that totally. They can do things that will essentially have me stop talking to them. I usually tell them "You have forfeited your right to discuss anything with me." I am not saying I will ignore the wave, just may not result in a T. It might lead to a T eventually, but not the spark that started the fire. Actually I give a lot of Ts for things that have nothing to do with the final act, but the accumulation of multiple things.

Peace

[tref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I hate when a coach asks a question and then when I try to answer, he essentially tells me to get away from him and leave him alone. When the wave is used that way, it pretty much shuts down communication for the evening.

+1

I agree, dont ask me about my no-call or why that wasnt a travel after you've waved me off.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually I give a lot of Ts for things that have nothing to do with the final act, but the accumulation of multiple things.

Peace

+1

Conversely, I give players Ts for partial acts. For instance, if I hear "That call was bull..." it doesn't matter what else they say. I wouldn't hear the rest anyway over the sound of my whistle.