Scoring Error at End of Game (help with situation)
 

This will be long, so please bear with me.

Last night in a highly competitive BV game, we had an unusual situation arise. With about 15 seconds left, the home team is up by 3 and misses the front end of a bonus free throw. Visitors rebound come down the floor and pull up for a "3", however the shooters foot is barely, but clearly, on the 3-pt line. Trail official (his primary) points towards the ground indicating a 2-pt attempt and no other official signals that it was a 3-pt attempt.

The visiting player makes the shot and the everyone in the gym, except the 3 referees and the visiting coach thinks it is a 3, tying the game. Gym is loud, and the score keeper put 3 points on the board and we officials don't notice that as the home team quickly inbounded and came up the floor and ultimately hit a game winning shot with 1.5 seconds on the clock.

I know we should have caught the scoring mistake on the scoreboard, but the game was so intense no one thought to take the eyes off of the players.

My question is, what is the proper outcome/procedure if the home team ends up missing that last shot? Scoreboard showed 66-66 when he took the shot and both teams played it out thinking that was the proper score when in fact the correct score was 66-65.

Again, the score "should" have been discovered at the time, but it wasn't and the table crew members are very experienced and you wouldn't expect that error to come from them. Please help with Rule and Case Book notations if possible.

Thanks in advance.

This is a scorer's error, not a correctable error. It can be corrected at any time until all three officials leave the confines of the gym. If the game had gone into overtime...and the overtime had started, then the score can be corrected (award 2 points instead of 3), but the overtime must be played to its conclusion.

Casebook 2.11.10

So, you are saying that if that final shot doesn't go in we can correct the score after the final horn? It is an ugly situation because even the team that ultimately won (home) thought they were tied and the visiting team didn't foul because they thought it was tied as well. No win situation, unless you catch the scoreboard error right away.....

I'm curious about your mechanic. Is there anything else you do to distinguish a 2 from a 3, before and/or after the shot?

Not a correctable error
 

I like to think of this as an error that we can correct. Correctable errors are errors by the officials that have certain time parameters for corrections. This is a record keeping error, the officials made no mistakes.

Therefore, you were well within your right to correct this at the end of the game and thus avoid overtime. As a matter of fact, you still should have corrected the score so that the end result was 68-65 officially.

2.11.10 SITUATION C: The scorer mistakenly credits a field goal by A1 to B1 and Team B in the second quarter. The regulation game ends with the score tied. During a time-out in overtime, the scorer detects the mistake and advises the referee.

RULING: The referee will have the mistake corrected. The overtime will continue with the corrected score. Once the ball becomes live in the overtime, the overtime will be played even though a subsequent correction of an error or mistake changes the score. A bookkeeping mistake can be corrected at any time until the final score is approved.

I know it's not an "approved" mechanic...

but, if there is a really close shot (near the 3pt. line) and the shooter has indeed stepped on the line...

I look at the table and descretely put two fingers near my mid-section.

9 out of 10 times, the table crew looks like they have no idea if the shot should count as 3 or 2...then when I give them the "2" signal, they looked relieved and nod their head up and down.

Again...it might not be a "pure" mechanic...but, it sure alleviates possible problems such as the one in the OP.

"Just Communicate Baby";)

Well, I can honestly say I can't remember ever signalling "2" before, but in lieu of the circumstances, my instincts took over and felt compelled to make sure people in the gym knew I was looking at the play/foot because the foot was barely on the line. I know it isn't an approved signal, however I was criticised by an observer last year for not doing that in a similar situation so "when in Rome" came to play.

If there's a close play, I always show 2 if a foot is barely on the line. It can only do good, so why not?

I use the unapproved mechanic as well...yes, technically the lack of a three-point signal should tell the table it's a two-point shot, but it's a lot easier to just do the mechanic, and avoid the table being confused and possibly awarding what they think the shot was (I've seen it happen), and stop the game. Plus it shows everyone you were on top of the play.

*I also fully expect to see Billy tell us about how this is the mechanic in his little corner of Connecticut*

...and yet you still didn't signal a "2" when you were instructed to do so by your Roman advisor.

I bet you wished you had after this particular game.;)

No, I did do it this game. I was just always told not to do it in the past so I have refrained. Then last year in a MNSHSL playoff game I didn't do it and it was part of my observation report so I did it last night. I think it is a helpful mechanic as long as the observers agree.......

Same up here in Alaska, just an accepted practice. (Underlined part is my favorite reason to use it.)

What I want to know is: If NO official signaled a 3-pt field goal then why in the world did the Scoreboard Operator add three points to the score?

MTD, Sr.

...and the table crew actually observes you.

...because chseagle wasn't in charge.;)

How many timers do you know start the clock when they think the ball is first touched rather than when you chop in time?

Yep, that's what should be done.

2006-07 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 10: The score is tied at the end of regulation time. During the intermission between the fourth quarter and the beginning of the overtime period, the official scorer advises the referee that A1′s three-point goal earlier in the fourth quarter was recorded in the scorebook improperly as a two-point goal. The referee verifies the mistake. RULING: The game is over and Team A has won. Since the ball had not yet become live in the overtime period, it need not be played. (2-11-11; 5-3; 5-7-4)

And It's Approved, Not New And Approved, Just Approved ...
 

Even better, an image.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5274/5...b354c999_m.jpg

And for once, it's not just in my little corner, it's for the whole state.

Me too. If it (the 3) is in my primary, I will discreetly hold two fingers low like the old days.

You must have missed the old days. :)

This is a trick question . . . right? :p

Sounds like everything was correct and others have already pointed out the correctable score issue.

And I have no intention of asking about a "corner of Connecticut" or how one goes about getting that pictogram image. :D

I'm poinitng at the ground when the shot is taken (shows up on film that we didn't just make s*** up after the fact) AND showing two points to the table as we turn to go the other way.

I also point to the ground with two fingers and then if made show it to the table and say "two" loud enough for the table to hear. Authorized mechanic? Probably not, but it gets the point across that it is definitely a 2.

I agree with most everyone and would also signal 2, but as the OP noted, it would have been better if (and should have been) caught immediately by the officials. If the shot is close and the players react as if it was a 3, you have to get a glance at the scoreboard to make certain the score is recorded correctly.

is it possible to over-communicate with the table in these type sits?

Billy, I'm not seeing this in my book. This is an IAABO image?

FWIW, I've also been holding two fingers while looking at the table (not more than a second or two) after such a made shot. I honestly can't speak to whether it's approved or not.

Yes, it's from the IAABO manual.

NO.


I'm not sure why some have said they would be "discreet" in holding two fingers up for the table to see. You want to make sure the table, the players, the coaches, the fans, the video, and your assignor who will watch the game later on video (after the coach calls to complain that "everyone thought it was a 3") sees that it is a two-point shot.

This situation calls for ANYTHING but being discreet.

I believe your official scorer could've been of some help in this instance too.I'm going to look for one of three things in this situation-
A.Hands in the air noting a made 3 point shot.
B.Two Fingers at the waist.
C.No signal given (assume a two point basket)

In this case I would've seen the point to the ground mechanic from the trail and once the ball goes through the net said "2,2" so that the clock operator,visiting scorekeeper,and myself are on the same page.This one is tough because it is correctable but there was no dead ball prior to the go ahead basket.If I had a dead ball between shots then I would ask "Hey ____________, just to clarify was the last shot for _______ a 2 or 3? Answer in this case would be a two, we'd make the adjustment on the board and finish the game out.

Another good table mechanic would be for the timer/scoreboard & scorer to watch the floor officials, instead of ball/player watching, for the field goal signal if the shot is questionable.

Was the scorer's table court level or a couple of rows up in the stands?

Far too many timers are guilty of either starting the clock too early or about 1-2 seconds late.

Hmmm.. I can't find it in my manual...

page reference?

No, not the table crew. State assigned personnel.

MTD, I have no idea. I just got a copy of the game and watched the play. My partners didn't signal a 3 in any way and one of them "mirrored" a 2 when he saw me (but it was 10+ feet out of his primary). Absolutely no reason for the table to put up a 3, just shows they don't watch us like they should I guess......

Can you post video of the play in question?

I am not sure if I can, but I will try. It took 4 hours to download it from the link the coach shared with me. They use sportsfilmexchange.com so if you know how to post the video please let me know.

In this situation I would not have been discreet. Everyone in the gym would have seen me putting up 2 fingers to the scorer's table.

Yup. They see every other call we make - travelling, blocking, etc. No need to 'hide' this one as well.

I'm not even discrete. Two fingers up towards the table, same as if I'm reporting a foul. Sometimes we're so worried about whether something's approved that we forget to communicate.

I don't care if "everyone in the gym" sees me...as long as my table crew sees the signal and the appropriate score gets recorded, I'm good.

...but, to each his own.

Bingo.

Last second shot, 1-3-point game, shooter anywhere near 3-point line. I'm not going to play hide-n-seek with my mechanics. I want both coaches completely aware. Also want the game film to pick it up. That way IF the improper score gets recorded, as it was in this case, there is no doubt or discussion needed as to what we (the officials) ruled.

But like you said, to each his own.

It's Because We're Special ...
 

As far as I know, this signal is only approved in Connecticut.

Misty Water Color Memories ...
 

I was there.

It probably was a case of operator error where the scoreboard operator thought he put a two up there but it actually recorded three and no one noticed.

Eagle-the only way table height could've been an issue is if it was a shot from the wings closest to the table and everyone was screened out of a look at the signal for whatever reason.

This is what I am meaning that if the table is court level, it can, at times, be hard to see officials' signals due to coaches or players being in the way.

We were running the table last year, in Gym 2, in the stands 2 rows up and there's a slightly different view of the court as you can look over players/coaches.

Now the table is court level opposite from the stands.

Same thing applies in Gym 1 depending on the level of the game being played, for the JH games the table is 2 rows up in the stands (same goes for C-squad only nights). majority of the time however the table is court level.

A possible solution for the OP would have been to pre-game with the table crew about watching the officials closely for the 3-pt. successful mechanic on those plays that are on the arc line.

And, of course, the very first basket of my game yesterday was a two with a toe on the line. I was the trail and tableside. Two fingers aimed right at the table. I grinned while thinking of this thread.

Apologies. Still getting familiar with that manual in my new state. It's the image from the "Indicate Throw-In Spot" signal.

At least one of them should have looked.