suspensions coming?
 

What an end in the Xavier game. A guy kicked a down guy in a brawl. I suspect that there will be a lot of guys missing for some games. Just downright ugly.

Guys?

Players? Coaches? Substitutes?

Could be a multiple of the above. Bench clearing brawl with 9.4 seconds left.

Earlier, with about 3:40 left, Cincinnati committed a bush league foul that EASILY could have been ruled an intentional when the player grabbed and held onto the Xavier player's shorts as he blew by him on a drive. Not sure if that player was involved or not in the major part of the brawl. NOBODY left on either bench.

Let's all take a look, shall we......
 

Video: Xavier/Cincinnati brawl

Me thinks #34 Black, is in big trouble for the right cross.......

This is the reason all this showboating, taunting and celebration displays do not go over well with the NCAA and the NF. These things can escalate very quickly and all it takes is the right timing and it is like a spark near a bunch of poring gasoline.

Peace

So, is the stomper. Did they put up the video of the guy yanking the shorts of his opponent who had blown by him on a drive?

Half time of the Ohio State vs Kansas game, ESPN showed it from many angles and talked about it for quite a while. Said, #34 (Yancey Gates) should have to sit at least 10 games.

So many involved and off the bench......wow!

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Yep, me agrees.


I pray I never have anything like that happen in a game.

Agreed.

Had a loose ball in the lane the other night in my GV game the other night. After the scrum, Girl was on all fours in the lane crying, bleeding. Pretty sad to see.

Hope that's it for the yr........

A longer version:

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Here is the postgame press conference from the Cincy coach:

University of Cincinnati Official Athletic Site

I was very impressed with most of his comments. He did make a suggestion that he tried at HT and during the second half to advise the crew that there was a lot of "talking" to his bench by opponent players. Who knows if that is true. He also said that there is no excuse for how his players responded. He made all of his players in the lockerroom take off their jerseys. They won't be allowed to put a Cincy jersey back on until there is a clear understanding of how they are to represent their University.

It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

Couldn't open it. Did you find that play late in the second half where the Xavier player blew by his defender and the defender got a fistful of shorts?

I just saw an interesting clip on ESPN's Sportscenter on this.

It's a closeup of #52 (Holloway) from Xavier talking trash to the Cincinnati bench the entire way up the court and Coach Cronin alerting the Trail of the actions; he is asking for a technical foul to be called. All this happens before the initial skirmish that leads to the melee.

This is one of the times where I hope the T should've had game awareness of what was happening and addressed it ASAP. The player's actions erupt in a matter of seconds but perhaps a quick T on #52 could've stopped it initially.

Thoughts?

This is a point that Coach Cronin made in his postgame press conference. It appears there was plenty of chirping going on most of the game. Perhaps the crew could have been more aggressive in warning and whacking the talking earlier in the game. Even IF that is true, that is still no excuse to clear the benches and duke it out (a point Coach Cronin made clear in his press conference).

I concur. This guy seems to be a very classy guy and it would not be surprising to see a smaller roster within the next few days. I hope that Xavier follows suit. A good lesson on stopping stuff early, although sometimes it comes out of the blue.

There was a play late in the 2nd half where the calling official ruled a foul by grabbing the guy's shorts on a layup and stretching them out by 2 feet "continuation" instead of an intentional foul. Sometimes you have to mete out the obvious in order to stop the crap. My guess is that the supervisor will be doing a lot of investigating, too.

Weird

And here's the play that you're asking about:

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Man, what a mess. The fight rule is a very logical rule, but when put in the position to enforce it, is very, very difficult.
THis is one of very few reasons why instant replay is actually a good thing.

I would think games with instant replay would make enforcing the fight rule a lot easier...and it allows all three officials to try and break up an altercation before it gets too bad, since anything missed can be seen on replay. I would have been very interested to see how they enforced the penalties if they didn't call the game. Lots of FF2 and indirects to the head coaches.

I think this is going to change sports in at least college. I think we are going to see a lot of changes with players and their Twitter, Facebook or any other social media site and it will change the way officials are seen for not calling or addressing issues of trash talk. I cannot believe that at least one T was not given for some of those exchanges before the fight took place. This was on National TV, not in a local gym where no one knows the parties involved like many of us will work.

Peace

I'm not following you. What does what happens on Facebook or Twitter have anything to do with what happens on the court?

The NCAA recently suspended a football player for what he posted on Twitter...which is the first case of this happening (which I don't agree with). I agree, that I don't know how more T's weren't handed out...it's not as if this was an isolated incident.

A lot of comments were made on Twitter before the game about one of the Xavier players not being able to make the Cincinnati team or start. I think is could lead to either NCAA policies about what they say on these forums or schools are going to take further actions and either ban their players from having these sites or hold them accountable much more for what they say. This to me is no different than what happened in football when Miami would get into fights with teams by bringing multiple players to the coin flip. Now the rules only allow a certain number and they have "free zones" where players cannot even go during warm-ups. I could see this changing how things are done or at least put it into consideration when these incidents take place.

Peace

If the NCAA follows the "rules" UC will not have enough players left to play their next game. Any player that was in the game and involved in the fracas will probably be suspended for at least one game (more for some). Plus, there were NO players left on the bench....every single one of them would have received a flagrant T for leaving the bench to participate...and it looks like they all did participate to some degree.

They might have 2-4 players left that are eligible to play.

Xavier, on the other hand, may not lose so many. I only saw the players and a couple more near the incident. Looks like most of their bench players stayed away.

I would think they could stagger out the suspensions...sort of like what happened in the NBA Playoffs a while back when the Knicks and Heat got into a bench clearing brawl. By rule, there must be 8 players dressed for an NBA game, and if they would have enforced the one game suspensions for everyone that left the bench, none of the teams would have had 8 players dressed...so they staggered the suspensions out by last name alphabetical order..and it's now the rule.

Of course, I'm betting they'll just suspend the worst offenders and not worry about the players that came off the bench and didn't participate much.

I have a feeling that the schools are going to take some rather punitive actions against their own, despite what the NCAA does. I could see a player or two getting kicked off the team entirely.

Peace

And after Coach Cronin's remarks, Xavier will feel pressed to do something to demonstrate their commitment to better conduct by their players.

I agree. Whoever kicked that player should be gone.

I suspect you are right. Is the guy with the shorts pulling foul one of the main combatants? I know #5 got involved from Xavier.

VERY impressed w/ Coach Cronin. "We're trying to cure cancer at Cincinnati"....i'd send my son to play for him.

It was a fairly young crew in terms of number of games worked. The CC on the game was Mike Roberts who has done many top 25 games but the others much less experience..

I hope you are right. I hope it trickles down to HS. Ive heard too many veterans say they have not called a T in years as if its an accomplishment. Unfortunately, Ive also seen referees punished BY THEIR SUPERVISORS for calling multiple Ts in a game sliding out of control.

Maybe the line "I'm not going to have a situation like in the crosstown develop" when we using Ts as a tool will remind the coaches what were doing.

The tail wagging the dog is a definite problem. Coaches blackballing officials who punish bad behavior should not be punished themselves. Perhaps coaches should have to explain to presidents of their universities as to why they want an official banned from doing their games.

officials
 

What suspensions do you think will come down for the referees?

From what I saw on ESPN, it looked like the crew should have T'd the bench player and Marcus Lyons (?) for the exchange at the half. It looked very chippy and it is a good rivalry game. To me those are two reasons to have an increased awareness and be ready to respond.

I really think this crew is going to face suspensions :(

I think there really needs to be an examination of the whole blocking process. Coaches should have to go through their university presidents to explain why an offical should be banned from doing their games. And university presidents need to be very sure that the behavior leading to any technical fouls is clearly explained. I think the fear of being blackballed by leagues is playing a role in the lack of enforcing sportsmanship issues. That kid who played Robin Hood with #5s shorts should at a MINIMUM been given an IF.

That said, I am sure that crew will be getting the hair dryer treatment.

Think about it this way, when have we seen a fight in a high profile game like this in basketball in this era of internet and TV to the level it is now? I am sure this will be on the NCAA site in in a week with the NCAA commenting on what they feel the officials should do in the future. I remember even some time ago this very specific issue was addressed with what happened after a timeout and the same actions were going on here. I just feel some kind of message to the officials are going to be sent and supervisors do not get out the message, the NCAA will. I know I am terrified of a fight and try to stop these kinds of things as much as possible. I will probably be quicker now on the whistle than I have ever been. Then again we have had many fights in our area, but it another thing to see it on video.

Peace

I hope there is an unknown trigger that boots them if there are any more unsporting Ts or flagrants. By unknown, I mean that they are known internally, but others such as officials, will have no such knowledge.

I also hope that the Xavier coach steps up to the plate with similar sanctions.

Honestly other than maybe a couple of players, I do not see the same action given by the Xavier program. Unfortunately for Cincinnati, this all took place near or in front of their bench.

Now I think the NCAA or conference is going to come down harder on everyone than the schools will do.

Peace

Another sad day in NCAA Sports.

Up to eight!
 

I concur with the earlier statements where officials feel good about "getting out unscathed" without any T's even when they are warranted.

You don't have anything to lose with hitting both trash talkers with "T"s or in the case of #52, just whacking him and going to the POI. The grabbing of the shorts should have been a Flagrant 1 and sent the message that the presence of the crew needed to be respected by the "gangstas" on the court for both teams.

Once again allowing small things to get into big ones by being afraid of warning benches, issuing technical fouls, or addressing legitimate concerns of coaches about conduct.

The player who grabbed...
 

...the shorts of 5 white should have gotten an IF, but when 5 white started playing to the crowd, he should have gotten a T. I think I understand the entertainment value some try to put on these games, but it seems to me the officials should have shown a lot more awareness of the situation, and handled it with a stronger court presence -- which sometimes means Ts and ejections.

I'm starting to believe a lot of officials are beginning to be intimidated by the players and their "roles" as entertainers. Situations like this should be a wake-up call for all involved. These are non-professional events, and there's a privilege to being a participant in them.

And for Mr. Hohn, what exactly makes one a "gangsta"? If you can't explain it, don't call it.

I agree on the FF1 on the shorts grab...I wouldn't T the "playing to the crowd." There were plenty of opportunities to stick a player or two for other situations, but I don't think that was one.

Like at halftime.

Pretty pathetic for what occurred. Should have been more players (at least from UC) and longer suspension. Can't believe coach is backtracking so far from his postgame statements.

An Xavier player referred to himself and his teammates as "gangstas, but not thugs" in the post game press confeence.

Thanks.
 

I'm willing to bet the moron who said that, if he met some real gangsters, he would piss his pants.

This same player also referred to putting his opponents in body bags (we're going to zip them up).

I had a real problem with Xavier letting those guys even show at the post game press conference. Their coach should have had those guys on lock down. And the guy making the gansta and body bag comment was non other than Tu Holloway, in my view the main instigator of the thing game long. And then, as of right now, he only gets one (1) game??

ok, all is forgiven.........
 

Cincinnati players apologize for fight that marred game

"No matter what was going on, I'm the older guy on the team. I've been here the longest," Gates said. "I should have grabbed the freshmen instead of going out there and throwing punches."

Ya think?

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Look who's still in game
 

Maybe in this long thread someone else has mentioned this, but I haven't heard it: Why, especially with the apparent pre-game and DURING game trash talking, and ya got a 23 point game and 9 seconds left are players like Holloway still in the game? Both coaches are now saying officials could have handled it better by whackin a few as game went along, but who keeps some of their starters out there, especially a POY candidate like Holloway who had been the attention getter/seeker, and most likely instigator, of the whole mess? Coaches are at fault here big time, IMO.

I'll give him some points for standing behind his officials, but I think the officials missed behavior that has to be T'ed. One wonders what, short of punches, is required for a T in the A10.