Whistle in or out during free throws?
 

Usually I have my whistle in my mouth at all times during the free throw, with the exception of when I'm L administering, I spit the whistle out right as the ball reaches the rim, just in case it caroms off the rim and hits me in the mouth (yes, it's happened).

I'm starting to rethink this practice after last night. I'm T on free throws. Just before my partner is about to administer the ball on the second of two free throws, I hear some commotion behind me at the bench. I turn to look and see a sub at the table wanting to come in before the free throw. By pure instinct, I start to put air in my whistle. Not a full blast of air, because I'm thinking to myself that my partner has probably already administered the free throw, but my instinct to blow got the best of me and I put enough air in my whistle for everyone to hear. The scorer hears my whistle and blows the horn to signal the substitute.

As I turn my head I see the free thrower has the ball. Groan.....

I motion for the sub to stay at the table and nod at the free thrower to proceed. His coach is standing behind me a little upset that I've blown my whistle and "distracted" his player right before he's to shoot.

Trying to think how to avoid this in the future.

First, I should have turned to check and see if the shooter had the ball before putting air in my whistle. I'm just thinking maybe if I had the whistle out of my mouth at that time, that would have given me enough pause to be able to catch myself before the shooter had the ball. Also, should my partner have re-administered the free throw?

Where is your whistle during the free throw? I'd like to start the habit of waiting to put it in my mouth until just before the shooter releases the ball.

Thoughts?

Mine is always in...but I've never really thought about why that is to tell you the truth.

In my mouth.

Should have stopped and readministered.

It's really no different from any other play -- if the ball is live, you need the whistle in your mouth. (i admit that if the ball will become dead after the FT, there's much less of a chance of needing the whistle.) The solution is not to take the whistle out, but to train yourself not to blow it when you shouldn't.

Live ball = whistle in mouth

Gotta be prepared to blow it as opposed to looking for it.

I believe your whistle killed the FT attempt, by rule.
6-7-5

Similar Mentoring Topic
 

Contrariwise, I always have a dickens of a time convincing new officials to spit the whistle out of the mouth when the ball is dead and nothing is going on. Having the whistle between the teeth all the time all game long seems to make them look more like a traffic cop or something.
Along with that, it's difficult to get them to break the habit of manually removing the whistle from the mouth blowing it. And frequently holding onto the whistle with a hand while whistle is in the mouth. Almost as if the lanyard really has no use during the course of the game.
Then again, I probably did the same thing at that stage.

Where are you positioning yourself as L that the ball could carom off the rim and hit you? I get wide (and deep, if there's space) enough that I think it would be nearly impossible to get hit by a free throw that touches nothing but the rim.

I would also suggest that you may be a little too lenient as far as when a sub is ready (by rule). I think we all are, but you may be a little too much.

Having said all of that (I'm saying this a lot lately because there are very few absolutes in this game), if you are trying to get a sub in for whatever reason I think most of us have been there too.

I keep my whistle in my mouth for this general reason...if anything happens and I need to shut it down I can without fumbling to find my whistle.

It was the first shot on a two-shout foul, and I was positioned next to the low block. I've been told by some evaluators to stand there and by some not to stand there.

You're probably right. I tend to err on the side of getting the player in, but perhaps it's time to be a little more patient on that end.

Ohh you're doing NCAA-W?

Move under the basket to catch the ball as it goes through, or at least put your hands up.

My whistle is either on the baseline or in my pocket to mark the possession arrow...I didn't realize there was another use for it!:D

High School Mechanics ???
 

fiasco better be doing this in an NCAA-W game, and not in a high school game. I can't comment on NFHS mechanics, but we don't stand in the "old" first lane space, below the block, in IAABO mechanics.

So do I. Always have. Always will. And will always be doing high school games.

With all due respect to so many other great officials on this board and posting on this topic, the rule of thumb should be: "Fiasco, do what you think is right in that situation. You are the official calling the game, not us. Ultimately, in or out isn't going to matter that much, as long as you can use it at the right time to make a call."

If we are at the point as officials where we have to have instructions or suggestions about when to have a whistle in our mouth and when not to, then maybe we need to reevaluate your work as an official. And if FED or anyone else gets to that point, then I hope someone somewhere seriously begins to 'question authority' about it.

You know, you better be careful saying that you always will be doing something.

For the past few years, officials I know have been making up reasons that we (in 2-person) don't chop on a frontcourt endline throw-in just to justify the then-thinking on mechanics. Me? I said, "You know -- if they want us to chop in three-person, there's no reason we can't chop in 2." And that got pooh-poohed -- funny, now that's the proper NFHS mechanic. I guess my thinking was just 2 years ahead of time (I didn't chop then, but I questioned why we weren't if it was so crucial in 3-person).

Maybe the NFHS or IAABO will decide that standing on the block is proper. And then you'll do it. It really doesn't matter at all where one stands on the first of multiple throws.

You've heard the phrase "when in Rome" right?

I don't love that varsity officials in my area wear the side panel shirts, but that's just what's done in my area. So I went out and got a side panel shirt. Do I do college games? No I don't. But, when in Rome...

Are you picking up what I'm putting down?

I agree with you, but there are some powers-that-be in our area that are adamant that you stand in the same spot for both free throws. So on the first of two, you're supposed to get "wide and deep" just like you do on the second one. I don't agree with it, but I do it.

Change My Tune ...
 

I agree with almost all of your post. However, here in "100% IAABO Connecticut", standing in the "first lane space" on the first of two free throws has been the one of the most criticized "mechanics" at clinics, camps, etc., for the past thirty years. In Connecticut, and not just in my little corner of the State, standing in the "first lane space" on the first of two free throws is considered lazy, absolutely forbidden, and counts against one's rating if observed. So, where one stands really does matter. But you are right, IAABO may turn around and change the mechanic tomorrow, and I would change along with everyone else.

What's the NFHS take on this?

Of course. My point was this: Those powers that be will make up all kinds of reasons why you should be wide and deep, even though it doesn't matter in the least bit where the L stands during a free throw when another follows. And then if the mechanic ever changes, they'll pretend like they never said those things.

I'd be happier if they just said, "We stand there because it's the required mechanic."

When people asked why we didn't chop in time as the T in 2-person (unlike 3) with a frontcourt endline throw-in, the reasons were many (and all stupid) -- my favorite being that "you can't be looking across the court to chop in time -- someone will get floored over on your side while you're ball-watching." Now it's the proper mechanic. The ball watching excuse is only valid if you feel you have to stare at the ball to know when it's been touched on the floor.

When I work NCAAW games I have to remind myself to stand on the block.

Are you serious? Fiasco asked the question, are you suggesting we (collectively) shouldn't have answered?

I used to stand on the block for the first, I don't anymore because we were told not to. I don't get quite as deep and wide as for the second, but I get OOB and out of the extended lane area.

I used to keep my whistle out on the first of two because I wouldn't need it. After my experience last week of forgetting to put it back in, I'm keeping the whistle in at all times.

Yeah, I wasn't offended by any of the answers. In fact, I thought they were all good. I need to keep my whistle in and just learn how not to bring subs in when they shouldn't come in. :D

ditto

No!
 

No. But to me it is rather frustrating that as I read the question someone was so unsure of what to do with a whistle during a game he needed to get advice about it. It seemed to me he felt like if he had it out he was wrong, and should have kept it in, or visa versa.

Maybe I'm misreading things, but it seems to me that these days in basketball and in other sports officials are being told there is only one right way to do things, only one right place to stand, only one right way to signal. And I immediately revolt at such thinking these days.

It just goes along with "best practices" or "continuous improvement plans" and all sorts of other things in our society today that demand we do everything exactly the same, instead of doing things right in that moment based on the situation at hand.

Another pet peeve is the movement to go away from saying words like 'baseline' and 'on the floor' during and after calling fouls. You mean that simple words to communicate what happened on a foul or where to put the ball in play are now wrong? I've only heard and used the word 'baseline' as a player and official for 40 years. Now it's verboten?

It's absurd.

This may make sense in baseball (I have no idea as I don't work baseball) but in basketball consistency between a crew is pretty important. I don't want to be guessing what my partner means by some obscure signal that isn't in the book. "On the floor" is absurd, in my opinion. If we were all allowed to free-form it, we would all look silly out there and we should be the ones on the court who just flow together like a well oiled machine. I don't want to guess what my partner means. I want us all to use the same mechanics. I don't think it's absurd to feel that way.

True! Afterall, since when did a shooter have to "leave the floor" to be in their habitual shooting motion?

My partners this year have had a habit of using the insipid foul tip signal on blocked shots. I couldn't bear to watch what one used when calling a "reach." There are some things we can deviate on (like whether to put your whistle in on the first of two FTs, what brand of shoes to wear, or how you throw the opening tip), but when you start deviating from the norm just because compliance goes against your nature, then we look like tools out there.

And I don't give a crap about "baseline" or "call timeout", but "on the floor" perpetuates a myth just like calling "over the back" or "reach" or signaling a travel when a thrower leaves his three foot spot.

Yep, exactly. "Baseline" means exactly the same thing as "endline".

I hate when partners say "On the floor" and look like they're counting a made basket. I also have partners say "over the back" and "reach" when they're verbalizing fouls.

A whole lot of really good college officials use this "insipid" mechanic. You seem a tad cranky this morning.

The "really good college officials" use the signal AFTER the play to tell the coach why there wasn't a foul (or something else).

Too many "not so good HS officials" use it DURING the play and then run the risk of a partner blowing his/her whistle for the foul on the play.

It's bound to get you in trouble, IMO, as soon as you start giving that signal while your partner is calling a foul. I've also seen some good college officials use the travel signal on a throw-in violation, doesn't make it any less dumb.

Though I might be a bit cranky.

This is a good point. Snaq wasn't quite clear why and how his partners were using the "insipid" mechanic, which is why I clarified.

I use it both to indicate a blocked shot when I'm hearing chatter from a coach, as well as to indicate to my partner that a pass or shot has been tipped on an out of bounds play that came from my primary.

I think it's good to be uniform in our mechanics. But I also recognize that certain unofficial mechanics and terms have creeped into the general lexicon of basketball. There are certain things I choose to be anal about, and refusing to say "endline" instead of "baseline" in every instance just isn't one of them.

I agree. In this situation, using it is going to get you in some trouble. That doesn't make the signal, in and of itself, insipid though.

Yes this is stupid, but it's also not really what we're talking about. This is using an approved mechanic for something that it's not indicated for.

Cheer up, it's Friday!

Sorry, I must be cranky today
 

What myth?

A drives to the goal. B rides A's hip with his hand and uses it to push A away from the lane as A starts to drive.

I call a foul on B for pushing A, and after my whistle blows A takes two steps and then shoots the ball, which goes in.

I call the foul, clearly before the next two steps and shot, and now you tell me it's wrong to communicate the foul was committed on the floor before A finished the drive and took a shot?

The second I go out and sell the call as 'on the floor' I have now told the coaches, teams and crowd that there was no shot, the ball was dead two steps before A put the ball up, and the basket doesn't count. To say there is something wrong with that I just can't understand. Using those words are just part of the way to sell the call, along with proper signals to make sure it's clear.

Yes, the words have to be used carefully, and I understand they can be misused by officials who should call the 2 shot foul instead of the common foul on the floor. But again, I state my point, this is another case where we are being forced into a one size fits all way to officiate, and it is not a good thing.

How many times have seen over the years where rule, interp, or mechanic Z is taught as being the best way to do things, then six months later the opposite is now considered to be the best way to do things?

All that matters as an official is to get the call right, referee the players, and give both sides an equal chance to win the game. How you do that is not a "one size fits all" proposition.

Now I'll just go back to lurking.

There are certain phrases that are understood by the "basketball community" (coaches, fans, players) and that officials tend to get all bent out of shape about. "Over the back" is one of them.

I don't have a problem with the term. I don't use it when I officiate, but it's not like I'm going to go out there and act like a coach who's talking to me about it is an idiot, either. "No such thing as over the back, coach." That's just plain silly.

We have to live in reality. And in reality, "on the floor," "over the back" and "reach" are just phrases that are accepted in the basketball community. Doesn't mean we have to use them when we officiate, but acting like they are perpetuating some myth and harming the game is rather absurd.

Our job (with coaches, at least, when asked) is to communicate why the action on the floor did or did not constitute a foul. No more, no less. 99 percent of fans and coaches are going to understand when you say "on the floor" that the calling official means it's not a shooting foul. If you have that big of a problem with it, pregame it with your partner. "Hey Fred, when I say "on the floor," I mean it's not a shooting foul."

Getting all bent out of shape about the words used is just a waste of time.

Oh my!! HS...
Perhaps you should slow down your whistle on SDF drives to the basket OR revisit continuous motion??
Why are so many of us hung up on "selling it on the floor" vs. looking for a reason to put them on the line?

Most would say that "before the shot" (or "during the drive") communicates the status better than "on the floor."

Perhaps, but you can be shooting on the floor. That is the problem with that phrase. When the official after you puts a player on the line who was fouled "on the floor", you've just opened the door for unnecessary grief.

It simply conveys the wrong information.

Sure, there are things that change and things that really don't matter, but this is not one of them. endline/baseline....OK. Hit/Hands/Illegal use of Hands....OK. On the floor vs no-shot....different because they're not mutually exclusive.

My thoughts exactly. Let's not reward the defense for fouling. If I'm too err, it will be towards putting the player on the line.

Never understood the big deal a lot of officials make to put a foul "on the floor", even when I was a rookie.

I agree that a foul committed before the try is (usually) also "on the floor."

The problem is that many then come to believe that all fouls "on the floor" result in no FTs (assuming it's before the bonus), and that's not true.

If A then B does not imply if B then A.

It's the same with "reach" and "over the back" -- a player may have fouled by reaching, but it doesn't mean that all reaching is a foul.

edit to add: I'm not going to tell a coach "no such thing as over the back" but I will say "no displacement on that, coach". And, yes, too many coaches (seem to) think that a taller player should be penalized for reaching over a shorter player to get a rebound.

My problem with "on the floor" enthusiasts is when they come in with a late whistle. "On the floor" whistles need to be early and sharp so that it's clear when the foul occurred.

Or better yet, let the play develop a bit and make sure the foul is in the act of shooting.

Just wave off the shot with the "no shot" signal and verbalize "no shot". That always gets the point across for me. YMMV.

Or let the play develop a bit and decide maybe there wasn't enough there to call a foul in the first place.

Quick whistles never seem to have the desired results.

If I'm something "on the floor" (knee to the a$$ of post player; two hands on the dribbler; etc) I'm going get it early. I'm not going to wait to see what happens later then come in with a whistle and say it happened before the shooting motion.

Never? I hit my whistle pretty quick when I see a player shove another player. I'm not going to wait for a fight to break out. I hit my whistle pretty quick when I have an intentional foul on a layup. I'm not going to sit there and watch the whole play go through. I'm hitting my whistle as fast as I can. Dunno about you.

There are a lot of situations where a quick whistle is very much appropriate.

It's wrong to leave the impression that the shooter's position on the floor has anything to do with whether he was shooting. He could be in the air and passing, or he could have begun his motion while on the floor. In fact, I don't recall many airborne shooters who didn't begin their shooting motion while still on the floor. Some even take another step after beginning that motion.

Having had a conversation with a coach after a partner put a shooter on the line for a foul committed on the floor, I assure you the verbage is a problem.

This is wrong
 

Tref,

Don't hand me that garbage. The play I put out there was clear, A had started his drive, and was pushed by B. A had not stated a shooting motion and he took two steps before he shot the ball after my whistle went off. If it's LeBron, he gets the hoop and harm. Let me know when you work games on that level.

If you want to call HS BK with NBA continuation rules be my guest. But don't come and say I'm not making the right call because I'm looking for reasons not to put a shooter on the line. Unlike you, I happen to understand the rules about SDF drives to the hole, and just as obviously you haven't read comments on the rules in the last several books about hand-checking and illegal contact.

While your play may be a legitimate "before the shot" play, the NBA and NFHS rules are remarkably similar.