New Referee on the town -- need advice
 

I will need some advice on Referee. I did a examination and did really poorly. The commissionar asked me to retry. Need to know what position of Trail and Lead and what advise to give out. Have 2 more chances at this. One for each orginization.

P.S. I have taken and passed the NFHS exam on the first try.

Newbie Ref.

Sorry if it is a dumb question.

what specifically about Lead, and trail? did you do poorly on the mechanics section alone?

You're going to have to give us more information...what exactly are you struggling on? What scenarios are you having trouble with?

Be sure to read the mechanics or officials manual. These usually have the basics of court positioning.

More importantly, see if your local HS association has a training program. I think most of us get better at officiating by doing it. The book is helpful too, but not a substitute for work on the court.

Im new to it as well and my biggest problem is how to stop ball watching. Any trick or tips that will help me cure this bad habit would be appreciated.

It takes a lot of self discipline & self talk to stop ball watching. At L my mindset is, "I have #32 white & # 44 blue, who could hurt us next? Uhh oh here comes #13 white."

Not only does that help you to focus on your PCA (while seeing as many of the other players as possible, with knowledge of ball/partner locations) should you have to call a foul on anybody in your PCA you already have their numbers locked in.

Yup. Pick up the off ball competitive match ups in your PCA. Be it post play, cutters, screeners, etc.

It definitely takes self discipline and continuous self talk. Even those of us who have been doing this for a while can be lulled into ball watching from time to time. But I find that focusing on the competitive match ups works well. If there are no real competitive match ups in your PCA then try to get a wider view, see what kind of offense is being run, and what is likely coming to your area.

Ball watching essentially means you don't trust your partner. If you trusted your partner, you wouldn't feel the need to watch the ball all the time.

I love catching off-ball fouls. In my evaluations, I've always been praised for getting fouls off the ball. That's because I trust my partner, and when the ball's not in my area, I'm looking for illegal contact away from the ball. When you start valuing refereeing contact and violations off-ball, you'll stop ball watching.

It's just about understanding your role on the floor and understanding that there's a lot of contact that goes on away from the ball. If you're ball watching all the time, you're not doing your job. Just care less about what the ball is doing and more about focusing in on your primary area of coverage. And remember that there's not a whole lot of point in watching the ball when it's out of your area anyway, because how bad is it going to look when you call a foul or travel that's right in front of your partner? Now you've thrown him under the bus and he doesn't trust you anymore.

That's a load of BS. All new officials have trouble letting go of watching the ball. It's something that takes time and discipline to overcome. As a new official it has nothing to do with trusting your partner.

Not much to add here other than maybe to practice at the lower level ball you'll get assigned to start with. It takes a lot of concentration and inner-dialogue (as mentioned by VA and tref mention) but the reward is that as you move up in level of play the dividends are huge. The hardest part is that at lower levels off-ball action is nearly nil as they haven't the slightest clue what to do without the ball so it's like watching cement dry.

It's not a load of BS, but thanks for playing our game.

It's a habit that can be cured by learning how to trust your partner. As the ball transitions from your area to his/her area, learn to think "my partner's got this. I'm going to watch off ball."

I wouldn't recommend this practice!! We should give up the play only after our partner opens up to accept the play. And, if you have a count as the ball leaves your PCA we should continue the count, yes, in their PCA.

No absolutes or always folks & the floor mechanics are just guidelines.

I agree that "not trusting your partner" isn't the cause of ball-watching for most new officials, and, at least the way it was worded in your post, came across as scolding.

Most people who watch a ballgame watch the ball. It's where the action is for most. When you move from observer to official, the natural tendency is to continue to want to know where the ball is. It's not that the newbie doesn't trust his partner, it's that he simply hasn't trained himself not to watch where the ball is.

Ball watching may be a symptom of not trusting your partner. But it's also a symptom of not knowing what to look for, where an official's primary may be, lack of focus, lack of action away from the ball, boredom, or a host of other causes. It many times has nothing to do with trust.

Oh, my bad. I didn't know scolding was frowned upon here.

Right, which is why I didn't use any absolutes or always in my statement. :rolleyes:

It's ironic that you get your feelings hurt more than just about anyone on this site, but you never miss a chance to be an a$$clown either.

I agree with everything you've said.

The point I was trying to make is that one way to cure yourself of ball watching is to think about what it communicates to your partner, to coaches and others who are observing your behavior. Regardless of your intent in ball watching, one of the things you're communicating to others (whether you really mean it or not) is that you don't trust your partner to get the call right, and that you're not really concerned with off-ball action going on in your area.

When I learned that, I started making not ball-watching a priority in my mechanics. That's all.

LOL My feelings aren't hurt at all. But that did make me laugh.

Some Possible Strategies
 

Since you inquired about specific "tricks" or "tips", rather than philosophy and "zen and the art of officiating", how might these help your quest?

A. Make it a point to review a printed sheet of the primary areas of coverage for either two or three-person prior to every game. What the mind sees gradually becomes integrated into a real-to-life setting. I've got a sheet with each official's primary shaded in a different color that I bring out every single pregame conference, regardless the veteran or rookie status of the personnel on the crew for the night.

B. Each time down the court, just before or perhaps right when the ball settles, manually bring your arms up just a little bit and actually point to and express to yourself the boundaries of your primary. What you visualize ahead of time gradually becomes what you prioritize when the action starts happening. Doing it every time early on makes considering your primary area more automatic as time goes on.

C. Get yourself a shock collar and give the remote control to a trusted observer sitting in the stands. Instruct him/her that every time your focus wanders from your primary.....ZAP!!! :eek: Should iron out any ball watching problems you have after two or three sets of undergarments.

Wrong.

This is one of the most common things I have to try to teach new officials to not do in camp or in evaluations. They usually do not know any better or have the experience to not do this, so they do it. It does not mean they are not trusting their partner when they do not know why this is a problem yet.

Peace

I think it is a combination of things.

Many are hung up on: " If I see it, I'm gonna call it, no matter what."

This provokes a couple of things.

1. You shouldn't have seen it in the first place, because you shouldn't have been looking over there.

2. If you're 50 feet away, and the play is right in front of your partner, you do need to trust him. "I think that was a foul, but if he can't call it from there, no way can I call it from here."

Even if you're the L with all ten players running motion above the FT line extended & there was an obvious foul that your partner no-called because they didnt position adjust?

Also, isnt the object of the basketball officiating to referee your primary matchup(s) while seeing as many of the other players as possible?

I hate discussing plays when partners get all defensive about their incorrect no-calls & resort to "you shouldn't have been looking there in the first place."

IMO, the game has changed & so has refereeing, the let em live & die mentality on obvious fouls is of the past. Get the play right with a proper cadence whistle is where todays game is at.

Not directed to you, but I find that most officials with that mindset dont attend camps to get the updated information anymore nor are they big on effectively breaking down game film.

I strongly disagree. As several others have pointed out, not trusting your partner has nothing to do with it - it's an issue of training and experience.


This is the only part of your statement that I agree with. As was pointed out earlier, the focus of the action is usually where the ball is and it's a natural tendency to look there. A good official learns to focus on their coverage area away from the ball, and that takes time and experience.

50 feet away is beyond the division line on most high school courts if you are the lead, and if something happens right in front of my partner, unless it's a non-basketball play, I can see no reason to go get it.

If all players are above the free throw line then you better be officiating hard in secondary coverage areas to help your partner who should be officiating on-ball.

It's not an either-or scenario. Watch what needs to be watched based on the situation at hand. Especially in a two-man game there is rarely a time when both sets of eyes should be on the same matchup.

I don't think that is it at all.

I think it is from many, many years as a spectator/player where most people just watch the ball. It is a habit from pre-referring days. Most people that watch the game like to know what the ball handler is doing and focus on them. For some people that join the officiating ranks, that is a hard habit to break. I think the last thing it is about is trust.

In fact, 50 is in the backcourt on ALL courts.....NBA/NCAA courts are only 94' long....division line at 47'.

And if all 10 players are that far out and beyond, the lead better not be below the endline....and 50 feet away.

Agreed....IF all 10 players are that far away, you still have 6-7 of them that you should be covering. Only 3-4 of them are on-ball....trail has those, the lead gets the rest no matter how far away they are.

On North-South plays yes, but the court is 50 feet wide too.
Lets just say your C has been known to follow the flight of the pretty ball on 3 point attempts. You knowing this fact at the T, so you keep an eye on his airborne shooters. *BOOM* Crash with 2 players lying on the floor, you see the shooked look in his eyes as they shift from watching the ball rip the twine to the players lying beside him. He then gives the "get-up" signal as many of the posers who miss that call do. I'm putting a whistle on it!!

I thought thats what I already said...

Having 2 man -errr- 2 person crews is a crime & should be treated as such!
With the speed & skill of todays players having that 3rd is very crucial as many plays require 2 officials to be on the play. Yeah team officiating... to some it may be a new concept. But its true!!

Tell me about it. I'm in my third year in a state where 90% of my officiating is 2-man (only the largest two classes get 3-man crews here) after three years in a state where everything was 3-man and I'm still adjusting.

It's frustrating to know there are plays in a 2-man game that, no matter how hard and well you and your partner are working, are going to be impossible to get with 100% certainty. There are always going to be a few of these, but they're common place in a 2-man game.

Hate it.

Yeah, we had a major big school league go from 3 to 2 this season.

I've begun working on replies for when they start b1tching about this isnt being called & we missed that.

"With the speed & skill level of the players in _______ this game really deserves 3 officials on it."

"You're absolutely right & you guys voted for this floor coverage!"

Level headed guys get #1 & idiots get #2.

I'm not grasping your point in saying 2-man is a crime and should be treated as such.

Yes, 3-man officiating is better, but in most cases, it's not as if those working on a 2-man crew have a choice in the matter.

He's being dramatic to make his point (with which I agree). Obviously we rarely have the ability to dictate whether we work 2- or 3-man.

It's a "crime" that some leagues only allow for 2-man crews.

Gotcha...

You dont grasp many things that are discussed here fiasco... j/k :D



Thats where you're wrong, we are independent contractors & we either accept or decline assignments.
I'll tell you what, if my 16 games with 2 person in this particular big school league (that has more than enough money to buy the 3rd) doesnt go well this season, next year I plan on telling the assignors "if it aint THREE dont pick ME" as many of the others have obviously done this year.

Interesting. So are you suggesting that someone who lives in a state or association that does only 2-man just...what...sit out in protest and not work any games?

In other words, your philosophy may work fine for you, but it's not realistic for many officials.

No no no, not saying that, never said anything like that.

If the entire State is 2 person, what can you do?? Work those games, get better & hope to move up to college ball.

Just speaking for myself. All of our majors have 3 person crews (except the one switching back this season) & some of our 3As have 3 person as well, depending on who you're working for. If all we had was 2s & I wasnt so spoiled by getting 3s early on, I wouldn't know any different & I probably still couldn't wait til game night!

Let's be perfectly clear.

I said:

to which you said

My point still stands. It's not as cut and dry as just saying "if you don't like it, don't accept the game."

You may have a choice, but for a lot of officials, it's not really a choice at all. You do the games you get assigned, or you don't get assigned any more games.

Got it. All I can say to those officials is... IT SUCKS 4 YOU!! LOL
Really though, they can't miss what they never had.

The Observations of a Bald Old Geezer.
 

The posts in the thread have been very good and informative. BUT, I think we have been had by the Author of this thread. He just joined the Forum and has not returned to the Forum since starting the thread, coupled with the fact his command of the English language leads me to believe that he was a troll.

MTD, Sr.

There's no reason to believe that...perhaps English is not the poster's first language and just because he hasn't visited in the past 24 hours doesn't mean he hasn't either a.)visited as a guest or b.)just hasn't been able to get on in the past 24 hours.

Or maybe he's just intentionally trying to get under bob's skin :D

UPDATE -- UPDATE -- UPDATE --

OK.. I've done a retry. Did somewhat better then the previous day. This applys to a 2 man ref team. What was the best position for the lead ref. I was told to "stay out of the key" and don't lean while watching, relax. use your eyes.

My big struggle is lead position. What are the ABC's of it. Thank you in advance.

Newbie-ref.

Won't be able to do 3 man ref for a long while

Here is my goal setting.. what do you think.

1. work on mechanics, using trail and lead position on 2 man. 3 man later on.
2. don't lean while watching. May not get a good angle of the players.
3. don't watch the ball, watch the player. (unless you need to look for a 3 pt shot, etc.)
4. always communicate with your partner.


Once those have been accomplished, I could work on
1. Know the difference when person travels, double dribble, palm/carry

Well.. thats all I can think of out of the top of my head.

Just working a small step at a time. I was told pick 2 goals short term. Once you accomplished, get better, then choose next 2-3 new goals.
Happy hollidays.

Newbie-ref.

Did you really think that was the play I was talking about?

No, here's the ultimate example:

Earlier this year, jr. high boys. I am lead. A1 shoots a 3 deep in the corner, 6 feet in front of me. He wasn't even (I don't think) that close to the line. I marked it, partner (a rookie) didn't pick it up, so I signaled it good. I happened to catch sight of him shaking his head and holding out 2 fingers. I found out after the game that he had overruled my call as he passed the table. "No, no. It was a 2." :rolleyes:

When we discussed it afterward, he said he was positive the foot was on the line. I told him I was certain it wasn't, but that wasn't even the point. There were 8 other players between us somewhere, and yes, "You had no business looking over there." Secondly, that he needed to trust his partner on this one, because I obviously had a better look.

Never heard this one before. I guess I get it, but this seems like somewhat a matter of individual posture.

I hereby find you guilty of premature emasculation.

With a new official, I'm not going to stretch his primary. Once he learns his primary and how to avoid ball watching, we can discuss situations where he needs to expand.

My response to a poached call is, "What did you see?" If I saw something different, I'll mention it. I move on unless he expresses a willingness to actually discuss it openly.

You beat me to it!

Avoid watching the ball is most difficult especially for the new referees like myself. During my examination, I missed about 2 calls away from the ball because I looked at the ball instead of the players. One of them was a push/block. Evaluator does not like what I did, just hey, I'm still learning.

This worked - - and still works - for me
 

One method of overcoming the tendency to watch the ball is to do the following:
When you transition from Trail to Lead, get to the endline quickly. On the way, think of your new PCA, and look towards it. When you get to the endline, turn your body so that your angle is facing your PCA, rather than being square to the court. Indeed, force yourself to face your PCA, and to look there, even though the ball, and most of the action, is not in your PCA.
As you get comfortable with this attitude, or posture, you will find that you can trust your partner, as you will notice his/her calls that you really didn't see. Making a mental note of such calls will re-enforce your desire, and positive result of "working my PCA" and "trusting my partner."

IMO, a couple of people seem to be trying to get under the skins of several others.

Can't speak for all of the others, but I'm not really bothered by it.

Don't Argue with Bob
 

I'm not bothered by it either. If only everyone followed the time-honored principle that "Bob is right...", none of the ad hominems (can I make a plural out of a Latin phrase like that?) would ever have been posted.

Does make for some entertaining moments while monitoring the forum at work, however.

'


Well, I guess it is better than being guilty of premature :eek:. Nope not going down the road.

MTD, Sr.

What is an "PCA" ? thanks,
New REf

Primary coverage area

Daffynition
 

Primary Coverage Area, also called simply your "Primary"

IAABO, Two Person ...
 

Thanks. English is not my first language. Getting there.