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-   -   Designated spot Throw-in muffed?? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/82980-designated-spot-throw-muffed.html)

McMac Thu Nov 10, 2011 09:35pm
We asked this question at our meeting on Monday night, sent it to one of our interps and this was his reply:

Quote:
It is a violation for not throwing the ball directly onto the court. After the violation he can get a time out but the other team still gets the ball for a throw in.

Some officials in actuality will just give it back to him but that is not approved by the Federation.
Call the violation.

Adam Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:06am
That's only true if it bounces OOB and then in bounds. Otherwise, your interpreter opens the door for calling a violation for bouncing (dribbling) the ball.

Also, your interpreter seems to want to call a violation even if the fumbled ball never leaves the three foot spot. I think that's wrong.

bainsey Sun Nov 20, 2011 01:02am
Quote:
It is a violation for not throwing the ball directly onto the court. After the violation he can get a time out but the other team still gets the ball for a throw in.
I spoke with an interpreter today, who said the same thing. The whole point of buying your way out of it with a time out is moot.

Adam Sun Nov 20, 2011 01:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 799281)
I spoke with an interpreter today, who said the same thing. The whole point of buying your way out of it with a time out is moot.
It may be a violation, but it's not that one (necessarily).

Bishopcolle Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 797967)
From where I sit, this OOB-control rule change creates a redundancy in 5-8-3a, which says a time out can be granted when the ball is either "at the disposal OR in control of a player of his/her team." Now, the former begats the latter, so you don't even need to mention "at disposal," do you?

If that rule were to be cleaned up and just said "in control of a player," that would settle this one. Fumble = no control = no time out. Until that day, I'd check your local listings.
Fumble = still in team control, according to 4-12-4....

Rob1968 Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishopcolle (Post 799293)
Fumble = still in team control, according to 4-12-4....
5-8-3 How does "still in team control" enter into the issue of granting a time-out?

Bishopcolle Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 (Post 799294)
5-8-3 How does "still in team control" enter into the issue of granting a time-out?
5-8-3.a "grants a player a time out if the ball is in control of a player or his team." A fumbled ball or interrupted dribble is in team control and a timeout can be granted....

billyu2 Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:46am
little words
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishopcolle (Post 799295)
5-8-3.a "grants a player a time out if the ball is in control of a player or his team." A fumbled ball or interrupted dribble is in team control and a timeout can be granted....
The correct word in 5-8-3a is of his team not or which makes a big difference. Timeouts cannot be granted during fumbles or interrupted dribbles. But on a throw-in if the fumbled ball remains OOB I believe the ball is still at that team's disposal and a timeout can be granted. Yes, no?

Rob1968 Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyu2 (Post 799297)
The correct word in 5-8-3a is of his team not or which makes a big difference. Timeouts cannot be granted during fumbles or interrupted dribbles. But on a throw-in if the fumbled ball remains OOB I believe the ball is still at that team's disposal and a timeout can be granted. Yes, no?
Thanks, billyu2

26 Year Gap Sun Nov 20, 2011 02:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 797930)
Do you have a reference that suggests the ball is still at their disposal after a fumble?

Peace
The OP did not say that the ball entered the court. If it entered the court, it was just a poorly executed throw-in. If it did not, he still has 5 seconds, even if his arms are not long enough to throw it in legally by retrieving it without leaving the spot.

SNIPERBBB Sun Nov 20, 2011 04:09pm
Does this help anything?

5.8.3 SITUATION D:

A1 or A2 requests a time-out: (a) while airborne A1 is holding the ball; (b) while A1's throw-in is in flight toward A2; or (c) when the ball is on the floor at A1's disposal for a throw-in.

RULING: The request is granted in (a) and (c), but denied in (b), as there is no player control while the ball is loose between players.

bob jenkins Sun Nov 20, 2011 05:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 799336)
Does this help anything?
No.

Bishopcolle Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyu2 (Post 799297)
The correct word in 5-8-3a is of his team not or which makes a big difference. Timeouts cannot be granted during fumbles or interrupted dribbles. But on a throw-in if the fumbled ball remains OOB I believe the ball is still at that team's disposal and a timeout can be granted. Yes, no?
Billyu2...Thanks for the input...you are right...those words "or" and "of" make a difference...also, reading further, I see in the case book 5.8.3.F timeout not granted during an interrupted dribble....Thanks again for the clarification....


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