Invoking the R privilege

JugglingReferee · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 08, 2011, 04:53pm

Here's the play:

5:00 left in the 3rd. A1 drives to the hoop and the L has a shooting foul on B#23. The T is 100% positive that the foul is on B#21. (There was only 1 defender near the ball carrier.)

You as the new L for the shots are questioned by the A coach because this would be #21's 4th in a city semi-final game.

You're the T. Do you say anything? If so, what? Would it matter if you, as the T, are also the R?

APG · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 08, 2011, 05:27pm

What R privilege is there here? Don't believe this is a 2-3 issue.

If I think my partner has the wrong number, then I'll question him and provide him with information...no matter if I'm the R, U1, or U2.

Adam · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 08, 2011, 05:45pm

Dual coverage area? If so, I might approach and offer info. If not, I'm more likely to assume I saw it wrong. Either way, it doesn't matter whether the coach asks.

It also doesn't matter, IMO, whether I'm the R.

Welpe · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 08, 2011, 06:16pm

AMERICAN RULING:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Dual coverage area? If so, I might approach and offer info. If not, I'm more likely to assume I saw it wrong. Either way, it doesn't matter whether the coach asks.

It also doesn't matter, IMO, whether I'm the R.

I agree.

JugglingReferee · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 06:43am

Funny, Welpe.

But you neglected to include the light bulb.

Everyone else in the gym knew that 21 fouled. The crowd (well, half perhaps) voiced their opinion when 23 was reported. The Team A coaching staff knew - and let me know. B#23 looked puzzled. The other players didn't say anything. I didn't know that the L reported 23. But when the coach asked me, I put 2 and 2 together and realized that the booing was from the wrong number, not the clear and obvious foul.

So I approached the calling official. We had a discussion, and he stayed "happy" with his call, despite the multiple points that I brought to him. In fact, during our conference, one fan even said "it was 21"; but that could have easily been missed amongst the plethora of crowd noise.

I don't have my book with me at present, nor PDFs, so I can't look up the exact language. There is a statement that if the two officials disagree, then the Referee shall make the final decision. I was the Umpire in the game, but if I was the Referee, using that privilege ensures that the call is correct.

Scrapper1 · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 07:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

There is a statement that if the two officials disagree, then the Referee shall make the final decision.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, there Tex!! The R doesn't get final say on EVERY decision. I believe the article you're alluding to only applies when the officials can't agree on whether a try near the expiration of time should be scored.

If I'm the R, I can't go in after my partner's travel call and say "I don't agree! Still Team A's ball!"

bob jenkins · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 08:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Dual coverage area? If so, I might approach and offer info. If not, I'm more likely to assume I saw it wrong. Either way, it doesn't matter whether the coach asks.

It also doesn't matter, IMO, whether I'm the R.

And, it doesn't matter whether the crowd boos.

It does, apparently, matter that it was a "city semi-final" game, though. At least in Canada. In the USA, we wouldn't worry about it until the County Finals. Rule 12-6.

As with (almost) all calls, all you can do is go in and offer information. If the partner won't change it, that's on him/her.

Danvrapp · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 12:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

In the USA, we wouldn't worry about it until the County Finals. Rule 12-6.

Can you site the case-book play? I can't find it...?

APG · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danvrapp

Can you site the case-book play? I can't find it...?

Case book play 12.6.1

silverpie · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 02:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It does, apparently, matter that it was a "city semi-final" game, though. At least in Canada. In the USA, we wouldn't worry about it until the County Finals. Rule 12-6.

In Saskatchewan, the "city semifinals" are virtual round-of-16 games of the provincial playoff series, so that really is a high-stakes game.

Welpe · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 04:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverpie

In Saskatchewan, the "city semifinals" are virtual round-of-16 games of the provincial playoff series, so that really is a high-stakes game.

What about in Labrador?

silverpie · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 11, 2011, 07:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe

What about in Labrador?

Labrador doesn't have any cities (largest settlements are towns), so the issue does not come up. (I mentioned SK specifically because that's where JugglingReferee appears to be from.)

srp6977 · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 08, 2011, 05:56pm

I'm with Snaq. If I see it is a different player I am coming in regardless of R, U1 or U2. A whisper in the ear telling him what I have and then at that point it is up to him to change it. I'm not "over ruling" him (as if I could).

A smart partner will usually defer and correct the call if they have any doubt at all.

Adam · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 09:36am

Your p called the foul on 23, the R can't change that. That's part of his judgment.

Raymond · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 09, 2011, 09:55am

I'm glad I work with crews where we establish in pre-game that a partner is only offering information that he is 100% certain of and we as a crew will be receptive of such information.