Invoking the R privilege
 

Here's the play:

5:00 left in the 3rd. A1 drives to the hoop and the L has a shooting foul on B#23. The T is 100% positive that the foul is on B#21. (There was only 1 defender near the ball carrier.)

You as the new L for the shots are questioned by the A coach because this would be #21's 4th in a city semi-final game.

You're the T. Do you say anything? If so, what? Would it matter if you, as the T, are also the R?

What R privilege is there here? Don't believe this is a 2-3 issue.

If I think my partner has the wrong number, then I'll question him and provide him with information...no matter if I'm the R, U1, or U2.

Dual coverage area? If so, I might approach and offer info. If not, I'm more likely to assume I saw it wrong. Either way, it doesn't matter whether the coach asks.

It also doesn't matter, IMO, whether I'm the R.

I'm with Snaq. If I see it is a different player I am coming in regardless of R, U1 or U2. A whisper in the ear telling him what I have and then at that point it is up to him to change it. I'm not "over ruling" him (as if I could).

A smart partner will usually defer and correct the call if they have any doubt at all.

AMERICAN RULING:



I agree.

Funny, Welpe. :) But you neglected to include the light bulb.


Everyone else in the gym knew that 21 fouled. The crowd (well, half perhaps) voiced their opinion when 23 was reported. The Team A coaching staff knew - and let me know. B#23 looked puzzled. The other players didn't say anything. I didn't know that the L reported 23. But when the coach asked me, I put 2 and 2 together and realized that the booing was from the wrong number, not the clear and obvious foul.

So I approached the calling official. We had a discussion, and he stayed "happy" with his call, despite the multiple points that I brought to him. In fact, during our conference, one fan even said "it was 21"; but that could have easily been missed amongst the plethora of crowd noise.

I don't have my book with me at present, nor PDFs, so I can't look up the exact language. There is a statement that if the two officials disagree, then the Referee shall make the final decision. I was the Umpire in the game, but if I was the Referee, using that privilege ensures that the call is correct.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, there Tex!! The R doesn't get final say on EVERY decision. I believe the article you're alluding to only applies when the officials can't agree on whether a try near the expiration of time should be scored.

If I'm the R, I can't go in after my partner's travel call and say "I don't agree! Still Team A's ball!"

Now that you mention it, I believe you are correct.

But you would say something if the application of his judgement was incorrect. For example, if he gave Team A a throw-in after a travel.

My P judged there to be a foul. But he called it on the wrong person. #23 was on the court, but nowhere near A1. (He did not call an off-ball after habitual motion had started.)

More importantly, my P should have changed his call; his clues being the conference, and all of the boos.

And, it doesn't matter whether the crowd boos.

It does, apparently, matter that it was a "city semi-final" game, though. At least in Canada. In the USA, we wouldn't worry about it until the County Finals. Rule 12-6.

As with (almost) all calls, all you can do is go in and offer information. If the partner won't change it, that's on him/her.

Your p called the foul on 23, the R can't change that. That's part of his judgment.

I'm glad I work with crews where we establish in pre-game that a partner is only offering information that he is 100% certain of and we as a crew will be receptive of such information.

If after a brief chat with him and he stands firm with B23, make a quick switch with him and let him stand table side to discuss things with the coach.

Offer the information you have (The defender on the ball handler/shooter was 21), no more no less.

-Josh

I don't like this. If he wants to switch, go ahead. If not, you're just starting the bus.

Besides, you've got FTs, so he'll be going opposite table anyway.

If you've offered him info, and he sticks with his call, you have to assume he called something different than you thought. Unless 23 was in the backcourt or something.

Some states have made the terrible decision to have the calling official stay tableside. I thought about this as well. I would not switch if he's opposite tableside.

-Josh

In Texas, we'd be tableside anyhow after reporting...I personally like going tableside and glad we've been doing it for awhile.

I also like going tableside, but there's no way I'm tossing my partner into the street on this play. If he wants to switch and chat, I'll go along, but if not, no way I'm initiating it.

Can you site the case-book play? I can't find it...?

Case book play 12.6.1

More specifically 12.6.1 Situation C

In Saskatchewan, the "city semifinals" are virtual round-of-16 games of the provincial playoff series, so that really is a high-stakes game.

What about in Labrador?

Referee ...
 

SECTION 3 REFEREE’S AUTHORITY
The referee shall make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the
rules.

SECTION 4 REFEREE’S PREGAME DUTIES
The referee shall:
ART. 1 Inspect and approve all equipment, including court, baskets, ball,
backboards, and timer’s and scorer’s signals.
ART. 2 Designate the official timepiece and official timer prior to the
scheduled starting time of the game.
ART. 3 Designate the official scorebook and official scorer prior to the
scheduled starting time of the game.
ART. 4 Be responsible for having each team notified three minutes before
each half is to begin.
ART. 5 Verify with the head coach, prior to each contest, that his/her team
member’s uniforms and equipment are legal and will be worn properly, and that
all participants will exhibit proper sporting behavior throughout the contest.

SECTION 5 REFEREE’S DUTIES DURING GAME
The referee shall:
ART. 1 Designate the official to toss the ball in the center restraining circle
for all jump-ball situations.
ART. 2 Administer the alternating-possession throw-in to start the second,
third and fourth quarters.
ART. 3 Decide whether a goal shall count if the officials disagree.
ART. 4 May declare the game a forfeit when conditions warrant.
ART. 5 Decide matters upon which the timer and scorer disagree and
correct obvious timing errors.
ART. 6 Confer with the official scorer at halftime to determine the
possession arrow is pointed in the proper direction to begin play in the third
quarter.
ART. 7 Check and approve the score at the end of each half.

SECTION 6 OFFICIALS’ AUTHORITY
No official has the authority to set aside or question decisions made by the
other official(s) within the limits of their respective outlined duties.

Some states? Actually, the NFHS mechanic is to stay tableside. Also, in 3 man, the calling official stays tableside.

So why is that a terrible decision?

I believe IAABO has not made that choice; but I agree that it's not a horrible decision.

Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other. I do not think it really matters either way.

Peace

Labrador doesn't have any cities (largest settlements are towns), so the issue does not come up. (I mentioned SK specifically because that's where JugglingReferee appears to be from.)

I believe that it is a great decision. Why have the coach yell all the way across the floor because, arbatrarly and by old mechanic, we would rotate on every foul. Makes sense to have the calling official trail table side to be able to ANSWER A QUESTION from the coach. If it gets to be too much the official can move away from the coach and should move away and more onto the court if it becomes a hostile situation. I think that NCAAW have it correct as well NFHS. I have also been told in our rules meeting that if we belive it will be confrientational, we have the option of being trail opposit table. However in this situation I would be table side.