Out of Bounds?

[BDevil15]

Im sure this has been answered before but I couldnt find it so sorry.

Can someone clarify this situation and cite the rule if possible please:

A player is near the sideline dribbling the ball, is forced out of bounds but the ball stays in bounds and player makes no contact with the ball. Player establishes himself in bounds and then is the first to touch the ball.

This is for High school boys.

Thanks

[APG]

If a player is forced out of bounds, then that sounds like a foul.

Under NFHS rules, a player can not leave the floor for an unauthorized reason (imagine a player who taps the ball around a defender, goes out of bounds, and comes back in). Otherwise, a player can be the first to touch the ball after being out of bounds as long as they have something inbounds and nothing touching out of bounds (they don't have to get both feet inbounds).

Also note that a player dribbling the ball is considered to have caused the ball to be out of bounds if they're touching out of bounds, even if they aren't touching the ball (the difference here is player control).

[BDevil15]

Well it looked like a foul to me too but I cant argue that it was a foul here really can I? The guard is near the sideline with the ball he gets bumped and leaves the ball in bounds the defender falls down so my guard jumps in bounds and touches the ball.

I guess I could estimate my guards mass and velocity and calculate his vector, then do the same for the defender. Give an estimated impact coeficient and we could determine whether it was or wasnt a foul... but a foul wasnt called.

My player was bumped and lost his balance, left the ball in bounds, returned and placed two feet in bounds and was the first to touch the ball.

Thanks if someone could lend a helpful answer...

[APG]

Originally Posted by BDevil15

Well it looked like a foul to me too but I cant argue that it was a foul here really can I? The guard is near the sideline with the ball he gets bumped and leaves the ball in bounds the defender falls down so my guard jumps in bounds and touches the ball.

I guess I could estimate my guards mass and velocity and calculate his vector, then do the same for the defender. Give an estimated impact coeficient and we could determine whether it was or wasnt a foul... but a foul wasnt called.

My player was bumped and lost his balance, left the ball in bounds, returned and placed two feet in bounds and was the first to touch the ball.

Thanks if someone could lend a helpful answer...

A player can be the first to touch the ball if his momentum carried him out of bounds as long as he is inbounds (meaning something inbounds and nothing out of bounds). This would not be a violation for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason.

And remember, most of the posters here are officials and our first assumption is you were an official...which is why we asked if there should have been a foul or not when you said forced out. No disrespect was meant by the statement.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BDevil15

Well it looked like a foul to me too but I cant argue that it was a foul here really can I? The guard is near the sideline with the ball he gets bumped and leaves the ball in bounds the defender falls down so my guard jumps in bounds and touches the ball.

I guess I could estimate my guards mass and velocity and calculate his vector, then do the same for the defender. Give an estimated impact coeficient and we could determine whether it was or wasnt a foul... but a foul wasnt called.

My player was bumped and lost his balance, left the ball in bounds, returned and placed two feet in bounds and was the first to touch the ball.

Thanks if someone could lend a helpful answer...

If a foul was not called then it is reasonable to assume that the official did not think there was a foul to be called. Defense has rights too and just because there was contact does not mean a foul would have been the right thing to call. It also could be an out of bounds violation if your player was still considered a dribbler even though they were not in contact of the ball. Actually there is too much speculation anyway as none of us saw the play live or had video to show us what should have been called.

Peace

[BDevil15]

Thus the generic original question rather than explaining the exact occurance in question... peace?

[APG]

Originally Posted by BDevil15

Thus the generic original question rather than explaining the exact occurance in question... peace?

Okay, maybe third time's the charm.

Under high school rules, there is no first to touch violation after being out of bounds. Now there may be a violation for leaving for an unauthorized reason...which may make it appear as a first to touch violation, but under NF rules, there is no such creature.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by BDevil15

Well it looked like a foul to me too but I cant argue that it was a foul here really can I? The guard is near the sideline with the ball he gets bumped and leaves the ball in bounds the defender falls down so my guard jumps in bounds and touches the ball.

Definitely HTBT, but based on the description, I think you could make a good case for a PC foul. If the defender was near the sideline and there was not enough space between sideline and defender for the dribbler to get through without contact (Rule 10-6-7) the dribbler is responsible for any contact (I believe the rule once said if there was less than 3 feet but it doesn't read that way now). If that contact causes the defender to hit the floor, I say PC as they were disadvantaged because they were knocked to the floor while the dribbler retrieved the ball. Just another thought, but since it's a HTBT, this is another possibility.

Roger

[Adam]

Depends what you mean by forced.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Depends what you mean by forced.

Didn't Bill Clinton say something like that?

[APG]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Didn't Bill Clinton say something like that?

Billy, I have no idea what this has to do with the topic at hand.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Billy, I have no idea what this has to do with the topic at hand.

Dueling definitions of certain words.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BDevil15

Im sure this has been answered before but I couldnt find it so sorry.

Can someone clarify this situation and cite the rule if possible please:

A player is near the sideline dribbling the ball, is forced out of bounds but the ball stays in bounds and player makes no contact with the ball. Player establishes himself in bounds and then is the first to touch the ball.

This is for High school boys.

Thanks

IF the player was still driblbing, then it's an OOB violation.

IF the player left of his own volition, then it's a violation.

IF it was an interrupted dribble AND the player left due to momentum, etc, then it's a legal play.

[BDevil15]

Apparently Mondays are much better for relevant answers... Sundays must be used for semantical arguments.

Thanks so much for the relevant replies and the case book citation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BDevil15

Apparently Mondays are much better for relevant answers... Sundays must be used for semantical arguments.

Thanks so much for the relevant replies and the case book citation.

Actually your question was somewhat vague and unclear when you first posted it. So you got the answers you got because people were (and still) trying to figure out what you mean.

Peace