The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Getting it right (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/82806-getting-right.html)

The_Rookie Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:29am

Getting it right
 
Lately, I have had coaches question out of bounds calls or if the ball was tipped. In my efforts to get it right I ask my partner. BUT I was told by a recent partner that I am being played! Stick with your call and if your partner sees it differently HE will come to you..Ignore the coaches :)

Comments?

bob jenkins Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:31am

Listen to your partner (at least on this issue).

rockchalk jhawk Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:20pm

If your partner is 110% sure he saw it differently then he darn well better come tell you what he saw.

If your partner is only 99% sure he darn well better act like he agrees with you 110%. And you will in turn act 110% confident that you are the man and that you are right (even if you're not convinced yourself).

It is 99% about presentation and there is no room for indecision on the court. That's a lot of percentages, but I think (hope) you get my point.

Raymond Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 796309)
Lately, I have had coaches question out of bounds calls or if the ball was tipped. In my efforts to get it right I ask my partner. BUT I was told by a recent partner that I am being played! Stick with your call and if your partner sees it differently HE will come to you..Ignore the coaches :)

Comments?

You're gonna have some long games if you ask you partner about an OOB call every time a coach doesn't like the call.

Pre-game the types of plays that you will ask for help and plays where help will be offerred unsolicitated. Ignore the coaches in this situation.

JRutledge Fri Oct 28, 2011 01:10pm

This should be pre-gamed every game you work. If your partner has something different they better come with information and information only. It is your call to make or decide. Most of the time you come to me with information and you have talked about this with me before the game, I am going with your call. But if I see something you did not, I might stick with my call. But if you pre-game this you should know the feelings of your partners and what is the best way to handle this.

Peace

SE Minnestoa Re Fri Oct 28, 2011 01:53pm

My favorite was many years ago. I was working with a guy who "struggled". A ball bounced off the red girl's shoulder and out of bounds. My partner gave the ball to red. I strolled over and asked him if he didn't see the ball bounce off the shoulder. He said no so we got it fixed and corrected. I went back to my spot and the red coach says "I hope you feel really good about showing up your partner like that."

Two free throws later we were ready to continue.

Mark Padgett Fri Oct 28, 2011 02:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 796323)
You're gonna have some long games if you ask you partner about an OOB call every time a coach doesn't like the call.

And that would be every OOB call. :rolleyes:

BLydic Fri Oct 28, 2011 05:23pm

While I agree with all of the previous posts, I (the lead official) did get dinged by an observer/small college supervisor for not asking my partner (the center official) for help on an out of bounds call weak side endline. Didn't think I had it wrong and the C did not come in with help, but in the post game discussion the observer commented that it doesn't matter. In this situation, the perception by the coaches is that we communicated and made sure it was the right call.

Adam Fri Oct 28, 2011 05:53pm

And that's the only such person in authority I've heard of with this approach.

APG Fri Oct 28, 2011 06:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 796359)
And that's the only such person in authority I've heard of with this approach.

I've heard about it before by officials much better than me. I think it has some merits in certain situations but we certainly don't want to use every time a coach or the players complain on a call.

BillyMac Fri Oct 28, 2011 06:39pm

From My Pregame, Every Pregame ...
 
For out-of-bounds help, let's get it right. If I have no idea and I look to you for help, just give a directional signal.
No need to come to me, just point. If you don't know, give me a jump ball signal. If I signal but I get it wrong then
blow the whistle and come to me. Tell me what you saw and let me decide if I’m going to change it.

Camron Rust Fri Oct 28, 2011 07:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 796361)
I've heard about it before by officials much better than me. I think it has some merits in certain situations but we certainly don't want to use every time a coach or the players complain on a call.

Agree.

When I've got a line call away from me where their may be a chance I saw it wrong and the coach asks, I'll ask my partner if they saw anything different. If they yes, we fix it. If they say no, the coach is satisfied that I at least asked. I wouldn't do this on every request or every OOB but there are just a few calls every game that you have to make where you can't be 100% certain and you have a partner that might have had a better look but wasn't willing to offer info.

deecee Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockchalk jhawk (Post 796317)
If your partner is 110% sure he saw it differently then he darn well better come tell you what he saw.

If your partner is only 99% sure he darn well better act like he agrees with you 110%. And you will in turn act 110% confident that you are the man and that you are right (even if you're not convinced yourself).

It is 99% about presentation and there is no room for indecision on the court. That's a lot of percentages, but I think (hope) you get my point.

Ill tell you what if Im 100% sure im still coming in to help. don't see how anyone can be 110% but I digress.

I have had instances where i go and ask my partner if they are happy with their look or if they saw it bounce of X teams hand/foot/elbow/etc. and they say no and don't change it.

If it's bang bang and pretty vague I EXPECT my partner to ask for help. I know I would. but half the time i go with a live and die by the call philosophy the other half i offer unsolicited help. Depends on the situation and the partner.

BktBallRef Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 796309)
Lately, I have had coaches question out of bounds calls or if the ball was tipped. In my efforts to get it right I ask my partner. BUT I was told by a recent partner that I am being played! Stick with your call and if your partner sees it differently HE will come to you..Ignore the coaches :)

Comments?

Stick with your call and if your partner sees it differently HE will come to you. Ignore the coaches.

Adam Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 796361)
I've heard about it before by officials much better than me. I think it has some merits in certain situations but we certainly don't want to use every time a coach or the players complain on a call.

Seems to me an advanced technique, and the OP's partner was right to tell the newer official to ignore the coaches. That in and of itself is good advice for officials in their first couple of years.

BLydic Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 796389)
and the OP's partner was right to tell the newer official to ignore the coaches. That in and of itself is good advice for officials in their first couple of years.

Without a doubt

dsqrddgd909 Mon Oct 31, 2011 08:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 796365)
For out-of-bounds help, let's get it right. If I have no idea and I look to you for help, just give a directional signal.
No need to come to me, just point. If you don't know, give me a jump ball signal. If I signal but I get it wrong then
blow the whistle and come to me. Tell me what you saw and let me decide if I’m going to change it.

Billy, have you published your pre-game before here?

k_st8r Mon Oct 31, 2011 08:53am

If I have a not so great look at the play, and not sure if it was touched or not, I'll ask partner if he saw a tip(unoffficial tip mechanic)LOL. If he saw something he'll say so, otherwise I'll make my call. BUt I'll ask my partner, not confer upon coachs request. In the vein of getting the call right. In a HS varsity game... I will stop and confer, again on my request. not like it is something that happens alot, getting it right IMO outweighs the short delay in not getting it right.

with respect to the camp evaluator saying why didn't you ask your partner???
If I like my call and am good with it I make it. I'm guessing the call maybe seemed suspect and that a conference would have "helped" the situation.

BillyMac Sun Nov 06, 2011 07:19am

IAABO, Connecticut, Two Person ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 796585)
Billy, have you published your pre-game before here?

PREGAME CONFERENCE

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3505/...67305d15_m.jpg

Stay in your primary. Seldom should we have four eyes on the ball. It must be obvious to come out of your primary.
If something is there that really needs to be called, call it.

Out of Bounds Responsibilities:
When Trail is not across the basketline: Lead had frontcourt endline, and nearer sideline back to the division line.
Trail has nearer sideline, division line, and all three backcourt boundaries.
When Trail is across the basketline: Lead had frontcourt endline, and nearer sideline to the free throw line extended.
Trail has nearer sideline, farther sideline above free throw line extended, division line, and all three backcourt
boundaries.
During transition, press, and press break, situations, the Lead, hanging back to help, will have out of bounds
responsibilities on the entire nearer sideline.

For out-of-bounds help, let's get it right. If I have no idea and I look to you for help, just give a directional signal.
No need to come to me, just point. If you don't know, give me a jump ball signal. If I signal but I get it wrong then
blow the whistle and come to me. Tell me what you saw and let me decide if I’m going to change it.

Put the ball in play where it goes out of bounds, or where the foul is.

On double whistles, let’s both hold our preliminary signal and not give a block or player control signal.
Make eye contact with each other. Give the call to whoever has the primary coverage, most often the
lead official, unless you definitely have something different that happened first, in which case we’ll
talk about it.

Be consistent with each other. Be consistent with what has already happened in the game. Let’s try to remember
what we’ve called earlier in the game, and what we haven’t called.

Communicate at sixth and ninth fouls. If we know that the next foul will result in bonus free throws, then we’ll
be more likely to identify the shooter. Off official should help identifying free throw shooter.

On throwins, count five players each team, check the table for substitutes, check the clock, good eye contact
before putting ball in play. A hand up in the air by the off official means not ready.

Game management: If I call a fifth foul on a player, I’ll tell the coach, unless I think it’s going to be a problem.
If either of us warns a coach, or the bench, let’s let each other know about it. If one of us calls a technical foul
on a coach, the noncalling official will remind the coach that he must sit down.

Near the end of the game, be aware of coaches calling timeouts and be sure to inform them after they have used
all their time outs. If the game dictates it, let the players win or lose the game at the line. If the winning team is
just holding the ball and is willing to take the free throws after strategic fouls, then let’s call the foul immediately,
so the ballhandler doesn't get hit harder to draw a whistle. Let’s make sure there is a play on the ball by the defense.
If there’s no play on the ball, if the defense grabs the jersey, or pushes from behind, or bear hugs the offensive player,
we should consider an intentional foul. These are not basketball plays and should be penalized as intentional.

On court at 15:00. Scorebook at 12:00. Coaches and captains meeting at 5:00: Players properly equipped,
Players wearing uniforms properly, Practice good sportsmanship, Adhere to the restrictions, as well as the privileges,
of the coaching box.

NFHS BASKETBALL RULES CHANGES
The specifications regarding arm compression sleeves were changed to require the item to be white, black, beige or a
single solid school color, be the same color for each team member and have only a single manufacturer’s logo that does
not exceed 2 ¼ square inches. Arm compression sleeves must still be worn for medical purposes.
Several definitions were changed to reflect that team control will now exist during a throw-in when the thrower-in has the
ball at his/her disposal. The change primarily affects how foul penalties will be administered.
Clarified that when an opponent contacts the thrower-in, an intentional foul shall be charged to the offender.

2011-12 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
Sporting Behavior (Pregame Situations, Taunting, Self-Promotion)
Guidelines for Officiating (Handchecking, Body Fouls, Screening, Post Play, Rebounding)
Injury Prevention (Concussions, Airborne Player, Flagrant Fouls, Excessive Swinging of Elbows)

CONNECTICUT MECHANICS
Point to floor for two-point field goal try when shooter has foot touching three point line.
Coaching Box must be marked. If home coach and/or home management refuse to designate coaching box
with tape, the home team will not use a coaching box for that game. However, the visiting team will be
allowed a coaching box. Notify Board Secretary, or Commissioner the next day.
Captains-Head Coaches-Officials pre-game meeting should occur prior to start of game. If the head coach
refuses to attend the meeting, notify Board Secretary or Commissioner, who will notify the school athletic
director and CIAC.

IAABO MECHANICS
Switch on all fouls.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:12am

I pre-game with partners with whom I have not worked that:

(1) If I give the stopped clock signal and then I verbally give the color and point in the "correct" direction, and I am NOT looking at him when I do all of these things, that means, come to me with information only if you are at least 150% sure that I made a mistake. (I thought I made a mistake once, but I was mistaken about my making a mistake, :D. But I digress.)

(2) If I give the stopped clock signal and then I verbally give the color and point in the "correct" direction, and I AM looking at him when I do all of these things, that means, if you are at least 150% sure that I made a mistake then please, by all means, come to me and give me that information and I will change my call if need be.

(3) If I give the stopped clock signal and then I do NOT give the color and NOR point in the "correct" direction, and I AM standing there looking at him holding the stopped clock signal it means that I do NOT have a clue and that the call is all yours ("white", "black", or AP).

Of course MTD, Jr., and Daryl H. "The Preacher" Long will tell you that the only mechanic I use is (3) because at my advanced age I am always clueless, :D.

MTD, Sr.

tref Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:49am

I'm sure we have all made an OOB call where the team not getting the throw-in reacts negatively, in unison. In those situations I always hit the whistle & simply ask my partner if they had something different. No need for a conference... I just verbally ask him from across the court. If they don't have a different call, they say good call & we move on. If they do have a different call, bring it to me & allow me to change it.
Coaches may not yell across the court, but officials certainly may communicate with each other in that manner.
Double checking with a partner, when appropriate, isnt a bad thing. It communicates to all involved that you are open to being wrong & all about getting it right!


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:04pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1