Went to my Daughter's first AAU Tourney (14U). Interesting rules 18 min half’s. No shot clock- NCAA women mechanics for the refs.

Here is my gripe in all the games I watched (and there were many) the 2 Referees did not move to see the court. The trail stayed at the division line nearly out of bounds and the Lead stayed 2 feet from the end line. and simply did not move (except when possession required them to move from trail to lead. No alternating position after fouls.

As you can imagine, fouls were called some 40 feet away at times. Of course they couldn't see the court. No one could. Several parents on our team are also Federation Ref's. We were embarrassed.

Ok a Ref bashing a Ref (actually whole crews of them) Perhaps I've broken the unspoken rule. By I sure like to see hustle from a ref. It seemed clear they were taught this style of officiating.... how sad. I guess it makes it easy to call 4 games in a row and get a pay check- still no excuse

Stew in VA
CVBOA

How could they be using NCAA Women's mechanics if there were only two of them???

Yes I meant to comment on that- I asked them what rules they were following- and that was the answer one of them gave me when I stated I worked HS games back in Virginia.

They only "mechanic" I saw were the player control signal I have seen used at the NCAA games- gee what do I know- just a lowly Federated official.

Funny I never was critical of their calls- just their court presence and their "ability" to see the court. OK it's over- not even griping because we lost- we didn't- it just made for poor "officiating"

Stewcall
CVBOA

Couple of things-

1- AAU Girls normally play by NCAA Women's rules. Perhaps that's what they meant or thought you were asking you you apporached them.

2- It's not uncommon, especially in AAU games when working 4-10 games per day, to not do a lot of switching, and to shorten the court as much as possible. Right or wrong, that's usually the way it is.

If you weren't critical or unhappy with their calls, why did any of this matter? :confused:

that's usually the way it is.

If you weren't critical or unhappy with their calls, why did any of this matter? :confused: [/B][/QUOTE]

The thought of making my call from 40 feet away as the rule rather the exception just doesn't seem like good officiating- but if this is the "norm" in girls AAU- I am now the wiser

Stewcall

calls from 40 feet
 

It sounds like the referees weren't giving their all during these games. Maybe they were conserving their energy to be able to last for 4 games, but that is no excuse for not hustling and working to get into position. I heard one instructor say, "...because you are only getting paid $20 for an AAU or rec game, that is no excuse for not hustling. That just means that you only have to put up with $20 worth of s---."

Having 4 or more games is not an excuse not to hustle, get in proper position, and work hard.
I RARELY do four games anymore, three however is common.
I continue to run hard, rotate strong side, and work to get
the best angle I can.
I will admit to not switching on fouls if the foul occurs near the midcourt line. But other than that...
If the time ever comes when I find myself maintaining a trail position at midcourt, (or worse) not even getting into
the front court, I WILL QUIT!!!!

I certainly hope you were not "bashing" the Ref VERBALLY at the game!

I have seen this happen more than once, and IMO there is nothing that will make me lose the respect of said official more... bashing verbally another official during a game...than that.

RD

No I kept my mouth shut during all the games- I went up politely after the game to ask some questions- my bashing only occurred here on the Board
Stewcall
In VA
CVBOA

Since we are talking about AAU officials, how do those of you who work these games get assigned them?
Is it just proximity to the tournament and through your local assignor? Does the tourney organizer select officials or do they pick an assignor who can get them a bunch of local guys to cover the games?
Does AAU have a central office, website, board?
I worked one AAU tourney out here last summer and it was done through one of the local HS officials.

I am in northern VA and our rec comissioner asigns us the games. Whoever sponsors the tournament contacts our assignor and he gives us the games. We have several AAU groups in this area -- Gym Rats, Vogues, Fairfax Stars, etc. My schedule is more towards the girls side and let me tell you, there are some terrific teams in this area.

There is a separate web site for AAU girls and boys:

http://www.aaugirlsbasketball.org and http://www.aauboysbasketball.org.

all about attitude
 

My two cents worth:

Most recreational games are covered by
experienced officials who are in the business
just "for the money" or by inexperienced officials
who don't know better and/or have been trained by others
who don't care about PERCEPTION and about providing
a PROFESSIONAL SERVICE.
And sometimes it's a matter of survival of the marathon
of working more than 3 games.

I have found that many officials have not really been
given the proper education/instruction and have
then developed bad (LAZY) habits.

In order to change, the LEADERS of the group need
to offer assistance, provide material, and continually
mentor and evaluate.Those who get recruited should have a good foundation.
Those old-timers need to be motivated and reminded.

The biggest problem is the ATTITUDE!!!!!!!! They think, I'll just do the minimum and give the least effort I can to get by.
Many officials think that the demand is so great
that the assignor (and leagues) need them.

They are usually right as their are never enough
quality officials to cover the growing demands
of rec refs.

If you want to assist in improving the quality of training
and performance; go to the leadership of the group and
point them in the direction of NASO and/or a successful local group or person for training material and education.
Show them good signals, teach them good mechanics like "switching" , "boxing in", primary areas, and "off-ball mechanics.
And tell them it's all about having a POSITIVE ATTITUDE
and having pride in your PERFORMANCE.

You can't possibly make good judgement decisions if you
don't anticipate the developing play and constantly MOVE
to get the best (changing) angle.

Good luck as this is a constant, difficult problem to resolve.

Mechanics are nice
 

but they are no substitute for understanding the game.
The game is too fast and too complicated to rely soley on a the mechanics guidelines.

First among equals, know what's going to happen before it happens.

Then, move with a purpose.

And, while I'm being irascible, no one is going to stop me from hitting myself on the head as the signal for the defender doing so to the shooter!

i like to call to this official:"b-52"

Dblref-->

I had the privelege of seeing some of the AAU teams you mentioned this past summer, as the 14-under girls nationals were held in Rochester, MN. I was ABSOLUTELY impressed with the level of play, and would venture that some of these AAU teams could beat many of the high school girls teams in this area...

Stew,

Where was the contest? Sounds like it was not in your area. If it was in DC area, then most likely it was assigned by an IAAOB association and the association does not condone that type of officiating and welcomes comments of this type.

Unfortunately, some of the better refs call just like you explained it. In fact, I worked with one who made a call in the paint on his side as the trail from the backcourt area below the free throw line. This was in men's rec. To top it off, he is one best federation officials in Maryland for this year (he did the state finals tourney). [Understand the assumptions even if you do not agree with them]

It is not asking too much for them to hustle if they are in my area. Those games pay 35 per official.

Thanks bud. When I was with bd 12 I used to officiate some of these games at Montrose Christian HS in Maryland as they were assigned by our HS association assignor or his assistant. I just didn't know that they were part of some bigger hierarchy and national system. As I have gotten older, I like to see the whole picture and know more about the system and organization that I am involved with.
PS We used to work some games in No. VA, where I worked, at school like Paul VI and Episcopal.

Hey Ronald, those games still only pay $35? They paid that when I left 3 years ago!

Nevadaref,

I thought I knew for sure but checked my fee schedule and AAU is not on it but the cheapest rec type games pay 32 and rising star pays 35 I think. So, somehow that figure stuck in my head. To me 35 a game that lasts an hour is darn good especially when one probably gets a least two of them if not more. The bad part is sometimes so of the guys like to walk and officiate instead of hustling.

$35 a game/hour is pretty good, but you must remember that with bd. 12 you lose 11% of that off the top to the assignor fee and then you must pay taxes (income and self-employment social security) on the rest because those games are run through the association and paid by check and they give you a 10-99 at the end of the year.
Put that up against what we have out here, which is $25 per game/hour cash. It probably is about even in the end. Just don't let the bigger initial number trick you.

The tax implications are teh same, whether you get a 1099 or not. IT's all income.

What is the most number of games you have done in a weekend? (Rec/ youth tournament)

Counting a "weekend" as a Friday night, Saturday and Sunday, the most I have worked is 24. Sixteen were running clock and about half were in middle school gyms. The other eight were on a HS court and were standard HS rules and time.

This was about six years ago. There's no way I could do this now, but I was even more crazy back then.

Mark P: "...even more crazy back then". I seriously doubt that! :D

Hmmm, I think I worked WITH one of these refs this weekend. Fortunately I only had him for one game. As lead becoming trail I would sometimes pass this guy on my way down the floor. It was common to see him walking down to just below the foul line to officiate the action under the basket when he was the lead! Oh my. Perhaps he's been doing 3 man and usually works the C position. Perhaps it was the end of a long day. Just glad I didn't have to work with him again.

Sounds like you need a tax advisor! I made over 10 k due to sporting events (officiating) last year and paid 0 taxes on the income. You can fill out a schedule C (profit and loss from a business) and expense off things like mileage, cleaning expense for uinforms, dues to officiaing communities or associations, camp fees, food, hotels, rental cars and other expences. You only pay taxes (fed, state, FICA ect) if you PROFIT over $400. Consult your tax professional. Also there are books put out by another organization that can assist you.

Bob was just saying that it was taxable income whether or not the official receives a 1099.

How you legally manage the amount of officiating income you receive (by offsetting the income with legitimate expenses) is up to you.

I know a lot of officials (who have quite a bit to lose, BTW) who operate on the theory that as long as the school isn't reporting the income to the IRS it didn't happen. All that to save, at most, a couple of hundred dollars in taxes.

Rich

Assuming that you did this legally, Kev, how in the world did you rack up $10k in expenses? Are you traveling to games by plane, and paying your own airfare?

And would you really rather pay out $10k in expenses, rather than make some profit and pay tax on it? I'm clearly missing something important here. . .

I know I have a reputation as being sarcastic, but these are honest questions. I can't imagine incurring that much in expenses.

chuck

Most of the time, unless you are a "comma check" official, you can offset all income with expenses. I tried to include the income one year with my regular income and then take the expenses as deductions and would have had to pay over $800 in taxes. and that was on less than 10k in officiating income. Not a pretty picture.

But if the officials are not reporting income (ie getting cash or other), then they do run the risk of being audited and busted hard.

Well, I did travel over 17,000 miles last year in my car. Take that and multiply by .36 per mile (the allowable deduction per the IRS) that totaled to over $6,400. Then there is the other allowable expenses (consult your IRS 1040 book) and a few nights in a hotel, some airfare, meals on the road (1/2 of that expenditure), shoes, uniforms...and poof...the income is gone. You have to figure if you travel 70 miles roundtrip, the deduction is $25.20. If you game fee was say $55, you have already taken a 40% deduction in the game fee. Add $4-5 for a meal, drycleaning your uniforms (about $5-7 per time) and the income dissapears rather rapidly. Camp fees and expenses during the summer also eat up a good portion of the income. Plus the hotel, mileage and food for that.

oh, and by the way, I took a year long tax class for my masters so I know this is all legal. I could have lost money if I had claimed all my expenses!

Then you should have claimed all your expenses -- losses are allowed on a business.

Sometime you'll have to claim a profit (1 every three years?) or the IRS will consider it a hobby and not allow any of the deductions.

I keep forgetting things. And who is to say that that I did not make some profit? There are many ways to show a loss and still profit (just ask any corporation...except Enron!) My regular job allows me to make a nice living with food and a roof, so this income is more fun than anything. As long as it pays for itself and dosen't cost me anything (well on paper!) I'm happy.

Did you take the same class I did? LOL I think it is 3 out of 5 now, but I could be wrong.

Isn't mileage only deductable if you drive from work (place of business to place of business) to a game? Sounds like you're deducting all mileage.

BTW, I report all my game income (cash too!) on schedule C and most of it does disappear due to expenses. But a while ago a tax "expert" told me that the IRS likes to see some profit eventually, that's one thing they look at distinguish a "hobby" from a "business". Comment?

Oops, just saw Bob's post on business vs hobby.

[Edited by Dan_ref on Mar 31st, 2003 at 09:03 AM]

Well, that is the idea to get to a point of profit. But as to the deductibility of the mileage, I usually drive directly from work, so it is not an issue. Even if I did not, who's to say whether I did or did not? But the mileage is deductable if you use the vehicle for business purposes, not just if you leave from job #1 or not. It really has nothing to do with where you leave from. And even if it did, I don't think the IRS can dispute or even determine where you left from. Kind of an "honor system" thing. I am using a personal car for business purposes.

Not a Tax expert but this is what I've understood it to be....

They consider mileage to/from work NOT deductable. Only mileage between one workplace and the next is deductable. So, if you go to work in the morning, leave for your game, then go directly home afterwards, only the mileage between work and the game is deductable. However, if you swing by the office on the way home, that will make the mileage from the game back to the office also deductable. If you leave from home for the game and return home afterwards, none of it is deductable.

I officiate in the Dallas/Ft Worth area. This year we are getting $17 for AAU games. We use stop clock, NCAA Women's rules but two-man mechanics (league director's decision). For tourneys we get $22. It's paid at the end of the day by the gym administrator and is in cash.

The AAU league director has contracted with the same couple of guys for the last several years to assign officials to the games. The assigners are simply basketball officials. One works Div II & III ball. The other is an assigner for the Dallas officials chapter. These two have developed a relationship with the league director over the years. And here's the good part, out of the $17 to $22 game fee we receive, we pay the assigners a one-time $60 assignment fee at the baginning of each year to be eligible to receive games for that year.

Sounds like other areas are considerably more lucrative than ours...don'tcha just hate that!! If it weren't for all the love and gratitude we get from the moms and dads, it wouldn't be worth it...;)!!

As far as hustling & mechanics, I tell new officials to always hustle and use standard mechanics (to the extent you can) in recreational games just as they would in any other game during the regular season. For one thing, you NEVER know who is watching. But more important, you can develop some pretty bad habits during the spring and summer if you aren't careful. If you use your "good mechanics" for the 4 months of the regular season but your "recreational mechanics" the rest of the year (6 to 8 months for most), which mechanics are going to be more natural to you.

There are Federal Labor laws that prohibit this, Anti-Kickback Act. Of course, that doesn't apply to an independent contractor. What a crock. I have never ran into anything like that.

Mregor

Do you expect assignors to put out the effort to cover all the games for free? The arrangements may be different but I'm sure assignors everywhere get a cut somehow. It may be that in your area they get paid by the schools to do the assignments. Either way, it comes out about the same. Plus this makes sure that the guys that signup for the games are serious about showing up.

My association deducts 10% for the assignor. Depending on the number of games I do (rec or HS), a flat fee of $60 might be a better deal. This past HS season, I only worked 3 games plus the clock on 8 games (usually double-headers) and made a grand total of $295. This was due to being out of town 2-3 weeks of every month (glad that job is over. This year, the 10% is a better deal.

Kevzebra: 17,000 miles?
 

If you worked games on 200 days per year (a lot, wouldn't you say) and drove 17,000 miles to do it, that would mean an average of 85 miles per day round trip. I'm not sure the IRS would swallow this math. Where do you live? Alaska?

I keep telling you guys, check with your tax advisor regarding incorporating.